NME Charts

[Pete Seaton]

for the record were the NME charts 1960 to 1969 the most accurate, as i dont want to update my own files with the wrong charts do i

what date did the usage of the NME charts really end ? and the use of the BMRB charts start use, and do the last week chart positions tally ?

[Alan Smith]

Nay lad! I disagree; my own extensive research proved Melody Makers were tops (Ask those at Guinness who have been shown the proof) NMEs chart in the 60's sadly was comprimised by a team member bieng open to influence (Until caught) I had this from THREE unimpeachable sources Honest! ASM ps NME ended its own chart about April 1983 to take the MRIB lists. BIG AL!

[Pete Seaton]

so who do I trust

I want to update my own chart databases with the correct info.

The chart Guinness will adopt this time !!!!

or do i just file all the charts under seperate files.

[Alan Smith]

Dear Pete In the 60's NO one chart was universally accepted. There was no official chart at all. The BBC would combine on a weighted average system NME, Melody Maker, Record Retailer and Disc for the "Pick Of The Pops" and "Top Of The Pops" charts. Regarding which was the best - well NME and Melody Maker were the big two of the time. As for accuraccy - NME's chart at maximum with 150 phone call; a team of six led by Fiona Foulgar. Sadly one of the team was a bit naughty and got caught out later. Melody Makers chart was carried by the vast majority of leading national newspapers. It was syndicated worldwide especially in the USA where MM's chart was seen as the British Charts. It was important to the Melody Maker to have the most prestigious and accurrate chart. They poured a lot of money into regulating and checking with many record stores up and down the UK (Even Northern Ireland) to assess sales permutations and checking for "Hype" Indeed Pete the MM caught many "Hype Merchants" and exposed them. I have the 1967 issues of MM where they announce what was going on in pop, MM further tightened checks on their own chart. As for size of sample. as opposed to NME's phoned 150; MM used postal returns from stores supplying them. At peak 270 to 280 weekly returns would be collated by Roy Burchill, Jeff Stars, Alf Martin and Mike Benson using one of the early calculators. Later from August 1967 Fred Zebedee (Real name honest!) would bring data from Discs chart sample - when the papers combined chart statistics. I got my info from the likes of Derek Johnston, David Hughes, Chris Welch, Karen Walter, Peter Jones, Norman Jopling, Nigel Hunter, Fred Dellar, Richard Williams, Chris Charlesworth, Graeme Andrews, Charles Bates and before she passed away , dear Penny Valentine. "Guinness" and "Record Collector" have got proof in writing of my work and contacts and can vouch for the sincerity of my research. Oh! yes; NME had the strange practise of putting "B" sides in it's charts and splitting many double "A"'s into two entries (Look at ELvis' "Rocka -Hoola Baby/Can't Help Falling In Love, No1 for a month in all other charts but only Two top 10 entries at no2 & no3 in NME's chart) Also NME kept allowing LP's in it's charts, even after it had a seperate LP chart!. So Pete if one HAS to choose ONE chart as most accurrate for the 60's I say Melody Maker's is it. Alan Smith.

[Alan Smith]

Gosh! I hoped someone would have made a comment on that data I gave just there. Ise'nt anyone interested? ASM.

[Pete Seaton]

So where can we find the MM Charts

is that the "Jasper" "Top Twenty Charts" book

[John G]

Guest-Alan said:

Gosh! I hoped someone would have made a comment on that data I gave just there. Ise'nt anyone interested? ASM.

most interesting Alan. As you imply, dodgy pluggings/listings did not start in the 1980s with the likes of 'going underground' by the Jam but stretch right back to the birth of pop.Certainly 1960s disc jockeys were invited to all sorts of strange parties in order to plug certain records.
Infact i think Fred Dellar has written a couple of books on the subject?

now where does the 'british market research bureau' come into all this?

[Alan Smith]

Dear Pete and John
Pete! ALL Melody Maker charts can be accessed at The Newspaper Library ("Collingdales") I can get you address and phone no if needed or there is the "National Sound Archive at 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB phone [phone] ext 7433 ask for Andy Linehan, a most helpfull chap. John; the BMRB when it came into bieng 15th Feb 1969 (Replacing Record Retailers own inadequate chart) WAS seen as the first TRUE industry chart and was used by the BBC, Radio One, Record Mirror and in 1970 Sounds. But for this reason, because it was then seen as "THE" chart it sadly attracted all the HYPE and FIXERS in fact virtually all the rotten apples from the bottom of the POP garden. Which sadly the success of these people sadly compromised it's accuracy sadly, strangely resulting in "NME" "Melody Maker" and "Music Now" charts bieng in true essence more accurate. which is a sad indictment for such worthy aims of the BMRB. Pete! I havemany MM charts myself, it's my aim to collect them all. So far I have 50% from 1962. 95% 1963, 70% 1964, 20% 1965 and 100% 1966 through to and including 1975. ASM.

[Alan Smith]

Pete! I forgot about the Tony Jasper Book. This covers the "Record Mirrors" own chart from 22 Jan 1955 to 24th March 1962, when "R.M" stopped producing it's own charts (Spiralling postal costs) and began from that date using "Record Retailers" charts. The book has some mistakes: April 63, May 65 and Sept 68; but is virtually the same as "Guinness" post 24/3/62.
Regards ASM.

[Pete Seaton]

When Pick of the pops returned in 1990, I had a copy of the Top 20 book, and it was then I realised that something wasn't clearly right, the 60's top 10's didn't tally up to the book or the Guinness books either.

I also copied the 1955 to 69 charts from the show whenever I could.

I really wish that a book (or a series of books) were issued to cover ALL the charts to end all the confusion.

I remember the Network chart in the Mid 80's
(Sponsored by Nescafe) with Kid Jensen, and hated that

[Pete Seaton]

Maybe we should all push all the owners of the charts back to the publishers

[Alan Smith]

Dear Pete
There were books published by Boxtree, of all the NME singles and Album charts. The authors were "Reece" "Lazells" and "Osbourne" Have you ever seen the books? It's a great pity no book of Melody Maker or Disc charts was ever published. A bit of info now; The first ever E.P chart started in Melody Maker on 21st November 1959; the next and only other E.P chart started in Record Retailer on 24th March 1960. The final published Melody Maker E.P chart was on 25th May 1963, and the final Record Retailer (And last ever) E.P chart published on 2nd December 1967. Howzat! ASM

[JeffVagg]

I've just looked at those differences between the Jasper book and the Guinness book - very interesting! A difference in what was Number 1 in April 63, a Four Tops hit that didn't make the Top 20 included in Sep 68, and as for April/May 65 - a complete mess involving 3 different records with the word "world" in the title! (Hermans Hermits/Seekers/Francoise Hardy)If the book has faithfully used the RM charts, were RM perhaps publishing provisional charts? (As happened once in 1973, although the corrected chart is used in both books). Can we be sure Guinness is correct and Jasper isn't? The reason I ask is that both editions of the Guinness book do go wrong for a few weeks of 1976 in the bottom half of the Top 40 (which wouldn't affect Jasper) where 2 records which begin "Love Me Like" (Bay City Rollers/Tina Charles) get confused, the fomer replacing the latter in the listings!

[ASm]

Dear Jeff
I have asked former editor of the "Record Mirror" Peter Jones, about those conflicting placings - but sadly he has no idea why they happened. On Three occassions Record Retailer did not publish a Christmas/New year chart ( 2nd Jan 65, 31 Dec 66 & 2nd Jan 71) but they DID compile the charts and passed them on to Record Mirror, who did publish on those dates. This is why for years the early "Guinness" hit singles compilers always ommitted these charts as they never bothered to check Record Mirrors chart page to be certain. Sloppy research! I think the 1976 trouble may be due to that week when a completly incorrect chart was published and played on Radio 1 (No1 was "Manuel and his music of the mountains") I think that is the cause of that bit of bother. ASM

[Jeff Vagg]

thanks for reply - no the 1976 trouble is nothing to do with the rogue chart, it was probably sloppy short-hand notes for "Love Me Like A Lover" being mistaken for "Love Me Like I Love You"when the Guiness book was complied. So I wondered whether the earlier trouble with Wonderful WORLD/WORLD of our own/All over the WORLD placings was caused by similar problems - who knows which book has themn right?
Jeff