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Post by Paul Vanezis on Mar 17, 2023 0:35:51 GMT
Hi all,
Today I delivered the 8mm scans of Roger Hill's colour 8mm film recordings of various 1973 TOTP performances to the BBC Archive. However, there is still one performance that I haven't yet been able to identify a TX date for.
According to the Television and Radio Database, the band Argent only appeared on TOTP performing two tracks, Hold Your Head Up and Tragedy, both in 1972. However, Roger recorded the band performing God Gave Rock and Roll to You, a performance I can't find on the database. At first I thought it might be their performance on The Old Grey Whistle Test... but that exists and I've seen it... and Roger insists that he only ever recorded performances from TOTP. What makes this tricky to ID is that it is obviously not recorded in the TOTP studio, but rather in an empty and darkened studio space, so it's pre-filmed somewhere. The TOTP giveaway is that at least once during the performance, the studio audience is mixed into this footage.
The record was released on February 23rd 1973 and Roger did record more than one performance of acts during the same programme on a few occasions. For February 1973 he recorded one performance from the February 8th edition (The Faces - Cindy Incidentally) and two from the February 22nd edition (Slade's Cum On Feel the Noize and Pans people dancing to Doctor My Eyes by Jackson Five). The Faces performance was also repeated in the February 22nd edition so it's possible that all three recordings were from that one edition. There would have been time for him to change the film.
I don't think Argent could have appeared in that edition because it's rammed with other acts. Anyone got any insight?
Paul
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Mar 17, 2023 1:10:52 GMT
Yes, I have your answer.
It's from 19/04/1973!
The PasB is missing from that date - I have been to Caversham myself and that was a PasB both myself and my compatriot could not locate.
Contemporary newspaper reports (including from the Edinburgh Evening news, memory serves), mention Argent from that date and the Popscene site confirms this:-
""19-4-73: Presenter: Jimmy Savile OBE (Wiped)
(18) ARGENT - God Gave Rock 'n Roll To You
(2) GARY GLITTER - Hello! Hello! I'm Back Again
(21) HOT CHOCOLATE - Brother Louie
(30) CARLY SIMON - The Right Thing to Do (danced to by Pan’s People)
(8) DAVID BOWIE - Drive-In Saturday (video)
(1) DAWN feat. TONY ORLANDO - Tie A Yellow Ribbon Round The Old Oak Tree (video)""
>> The main line-up confirmed by a newspaper article (20/4/73)
>> Chart Rundown & playout record not known.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Mar 17, 2023 1:15:16 GMT
All the other PasBs from 1973 exist and Argent did not appear on any other TOTP editions in 1973.
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Post by richardfitzgerald on Mar 17, 2023 9:37:05 GMT
All the other PasBs from 1973 exist and Argent did not appear on any other TOTP editions in 1973. Have you tried the BFI library Ray? They have (or had) fiche records of BBC PasBs going back to the 60s. |
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Mar 17, 2023 9:51:47 GMT
All the other PasBs from 1973 exist and Argent did not appear on any other TOTP editions in 1973. Have you tried the BFI library Ray? They have (or had) fiche records of BBC PasBs going back to the 60s. Not yet; I don't get about much these days due to infirmity and poverty, being honest! Until William unearthed the Edinburgh Evening News review and critique on 19/04/1973 (printed the following day, naturally), it was thought it'd had never been broadcast! |
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Mar 17, 2023 10:41:45 GMT
Yes, I have your answer.It's from 19/04/1973! Cheers Ray! |
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Post by williammcgregor on Mar 17, 2023 13:48:32 GMT
Hi Ray,
Here's the original post I made on the 23/4/15 which opened up a can of worms ( To see what I mean have a look at page 23) of your old thread Memories of TOTP - The Wiped Years 1964 - 1977) ...
Edinburgh Evening News
TV critic's review of TOTP 19/4/73
Pan's People were not at their best dancing to Carly Simons' (You're So Vain) Jimmy Savile in half open dressing gown, half revealing a bare torso and the blue trunks he wears for wrestling.
David Bowie given the "new release" spot. (film shown was of a sporty looking car with a video tape screen in the front, much to the chagrin of the road safety people I imagine.)
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Post by paul carney on Mar 17, 2023 16:51:37 GMT
Saville hiding in plain sight again.
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Post by Samuel Giles on Mar 17, 2023 18:31:46 GMT
I was a very keen Super-8 buff in my teens / early twenties so I have a couple of technical queries:
Were these filmed on a sound camera or did Roger record the sound separately?
Are TV rolling bars seen on the films? I think possibly the only way to avoid this was to use a camera with two, rather than three shutter blades(?)
Also...how likely is it the Beeb will show some of these?
Thanks muchly!
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Post by Bob Savage (robstar) on Mar 17, 2023 19:05:46 GMT
T.Rex The Groover was one of these performances on Super 8 wasn't it. I hope it gets shown one day!
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Mar 17, 2023 21:24:53 GMT
I was a very keen Super-8 buff in my teens / early twenties so I have a couple of technical queries: Were these filmed on a sound camera or did Roger record the sound separately? Are TV rolling bars seen on the films? I think possibly the only way to avoid this was to use a camera with two, rather than three shutter blades(?) Also...how likely is it the Beeb will show some of these? Thanks muchly! He recorded the audio separately and they were synched somehow using a capstan motor or something. Paul Vanezis will know exactly. |
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Post by Peter Stirling on Mar 17, 2023 23:18:02 GMT
I was a very keen Super-8 buff in my teens / early twenties so I have a couple of technical queries: Were these filmed on a sound camera or did Roger record the sound separately? Are TV rolling bars seen on the films? I think possibly the only way to avoid this was to use a camera with two, rather than three shutter blades(?) Also...how likely is it the Beeb will show some of these? Thanks muchly! Most people's cameras were cheap tacky things that had separate viewfinders (for the holiday snaps market) so you had just a vague idea of what was actually going on film- the more expensive ones had 'thru the lens' viewfinders, so by just looking in the viewfinder and rolling, you could see the bar on the screen and a shutter control would allow you to phase the camera to the screen. These days even the rubbish cameras would have no problem filming digital display screens. ..and 8mm film is quite broadcastable today ..which was not always the case as the old vacuum tube sensors in the telecine just could not be made small enough to do justice the image. |
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Post by Paul Vanezis on Mar 18, 2023 0:24:27 GMT
He recorded the audio separately and they were synched somehow using a capstan motor or something. Paul Vanezis will know exactly. I don't know about that. Roger did explain it to me but I'm no engineer and he is a master tech boffin. However, this is what he told me. The footage was shot on a super 8 camera on a tripod from a 12 inch Sony Trinitron television. The footage is slightly zoomed in as you would expect but you can't see the edges of the screen. There is some flicker and it isn't consistent across all the films. The sound was recorded separately on quarter inch tape as a line recording, then he used some kind of dynamo connected to the motor of his projector to sync the quarter inch tape to the film. But before he could do that he had to paint a magnetic stripe onto the edge of the films because they were mute films with no stripe! This caused a few issues though when transferring the films because if I'd had the films cleaned first it might have damaged or even removed the magnetic stripe and that would have been a bit of a disaster. So that's the story. There's a total of 31 performances recorded although three of them are either filmed promo's or videotaped promo's, which leaves 28 studio pieces. Paul |
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Post by Samuel Giles on Mar 18, 2023 9:53:05 GMT
Thanks very much, guys, for all the info, there. Yes, Super-8 - a very hands-on film gauge indeed!
Like everyone else here I hope the Beeb will show at least some of these although I can't see them being premiered together on some specific programme, unfortunately (like TOTP2, for instance). More than likely just the odd clip or two being featured on future music documentaries, maybe?
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Post by Liam Joseph on Mar 20, 2023 3:20:25 GMT
Thanks very much, guys, for all the info, there. Yes, Super-8 - a very hands-on film gauge indeed! Like everyone else here I hope the Beeb will show at least some of these although I can't see them being premiered together on some specific programme, unfortunately (like TOTP2, for instance). More than likely just the odd clip or two being featured on future music documentaries, maybe? It might just be me but i can't see why they don't just have a special night on BBC4 where they show them all. I thought budgets were tight at the Beeb and it presumably wouldn't cost much, plus some of the artists featured are still popular and remembered. Maybe they think there's not enough of us "boomers" left to justify it.  |
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