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Post by John Wall on Jan 13, 2023 21:47:47 GMT
Let’s apply a few little grey cells.
First, let’s accept the premise of half a dozen MEs with collectors.
There are things we’ve discussed before but are worth revisiting.
I think it’s established that Auntie ain’t gonna shell out 💰 to get MEs back.
Then there’s the question of publicity, some might want it, others might not. If someone has a ME and is happy for it to be returned or copied but wants to remain incognito there’s no problem, the likes of PV can be guaranteed to keep quiet. I don’t believe that anyone wanting privacy would have any reason to worry.
Another aspect is the “City of Death” scenario, hoarding something in the knowledge it’s unique.
If there are half a dozen MEs - possibly including WoF3 - known to be out there I start wondering why at least one hasn’t been returned, surely one must be in the hands of someone who’s happy to, at least, loan it for copying?
So,, I started thinking. We know that some prints were, er, “liberated” from those returned from Australia in the 1970s to be destroyed - seemingly in pairs like Krynoid pods. Could a collector have managed to secure, say, four of these? Then that person is either after 💰 or a hoarder. That could explain why none have made it back.
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Post by Natalie Sinead on Jan 13, 2023 22:35:55 GMT
the belief that "of course most will love to hand them over!" just is not true.
also, most people don't have a comprehensive list of what is missing and what is not in their heads.
Look at Melbourne Man's family as well - they are ordinary people who would not have known the extent of the archive purge. If they had, they would have called in Aron before they sent off the U-Matics to the tip.
Also, it's common to see fans act as if the titles are on the labels of the 16mm BBC films.
Tomb had "MM1", "MM2" etc. on it.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 13, 2023 22:51:40 GMT
the belief that "of course most will love to hand them over!" just is not true. also, most people don't have a comprehensive list of what is missing and what is not in their heads. Look at Melbourne Man's family as well - they are ordinary people who would not have known the extent of the archive purge. If they had, they would have called in Aron before they sent off the U-Matics to the tip. Also, it's common to see fans act as if the titles are on the labels of the 16mm BBC films. Tomb had "MM1", "MM2" etc. on it. If PM and/or PV have verified that the prints are DW MEs then the owners must also, now, be aware of that. |
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Post by markperry on Jan 14, 2023 21:00:16 GMT
Yep and unfortunately you get the ones who are probably rubbing their hands together waiting forever for the magic cheque in hand and their set for life. Or the ones who won't return it because of their sentimental attachment to it. Fact is its very difficult to change one's mindsets from those views.
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Post by mattg on Jan 14, 2023 23:43:38 GMT
Yep and unfortunately you get the ones who are probably rubbing their hands together waiting forever for magic cheque in hand and their set for life. Or the ones who won't return it because of their sentimental attachment to it. Fact is its very difficult to change one's mindsets from those views. I’ve often wondered whether a bit of strategic (and very cynical) ego stroking might not tease a rumoured missing episode or two from the hands of stubborn collectors in lieu of remuneration. By that I mean the prospect of garnering (relative) public recognition via a gushing interview in DWM, generous feature in the Radio Times followed by a jovial appearance on BBC Breakfast et al could conceivably persuade some to part with missing material for gratis. Of course such fleeting rewards might seem a little disproportionate if the episode returned was from a less ‘sexy’ story like The Massacre! Indeed whilst the recovery of any missing ‘Who is obviously welcomed by fans to secure the general public’s attention (and more crucially the media’s) one suspects the Daleks and/or Cybermen would be required. Needless to say all of the above assumes the likes of Phil Morris haven’t already tried such ploys on obstinate collectors… |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 14, 2023 23:51:33 GMT
Yep and unfortunately you get the ones who are probably rubbing their hands together waiting forever for magic cheque in hand and their set for life. Or the ones who won't return it because of their sentimental attachment to it. Fact is its very difficult to change one's mindsets from those views. I’ve often wondered whether a bit of strategic (and very cynical) ego stroking might not tease a rumoured missing episode or two from the hands of stubborn collectors in lieu of remuneration. By that I mean the prospect of garnering (relative) public recognition via a gushing interview in DWM, generous feature in the Radio Times followed by a jovial appearance on BBC Breakfast et al could conceivably persuade some to part with missing material for gratis. Of course such fleeting rewards might seem a little disproportionate if the episode returned was from a less ‘sexy’ story like The Massacre! Indeed whilst the recovery of any missing ‘Who is obviously welcomed by fans to secure the general public’s attention (and more crucially the media’s) one suspects the Daleks and/or Cybermen would be required. Needless to say all of the above assumes the likes of Phil Morris haven’t already tried such ploys on obstinate collectors… Within reason - such as a tickertape procession down the Mall or a service of thanksgiving In Westminster Abbey - I’m sure that a decent amount of publicity could be easily arranged for someone returning a ME. AFAIK almost everyone knows everyone else so a piccie on the cover of DWM holding a film can probably wouldn’t be too much aggro. |
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Post by Ralph Rose on Jan 15, 2023 1:40:27 GMT
I’ve often wondered whether a bit of strategic (and very cynical) ego stroking might not tease a rumoured missing episode or two from the hands of stubborn collectors in lieu of remuneration. By that I mean the prospect of garnering (relative) public recognition via a gushing interview in DWM, generous feature in the Radio Times followed by a jovial appearance on BBC Breakfast et al could conceivably persuade some to part with missing material for gratis. Of course such fleeting rewards might seem a little disproportionate if the episode returned was from a less ‘sexy’ story like The Massacre! Indeed whilst the recovery of any missing ‘Who is obviously welcomed by fans to secure the general public’s attention (and more crucially the media’s) one suspects the Daleks and/or Cybermen would be required. Needless to say all of the above assumes the likes of Phil Morris haven’t already tried such ploys on obstinate collectors… Within reason - such as a tickertape procession down the Mall or a service of thanksgiving In Westminster Abbey - I’m sure that a decent amount of publicity could be easily arranged for someone returning a ME. AFAIK almost everyone knows everyone else so a piccie on the cover of DWM holding a film can probably wouldn’t be too much aggro. The other side of this coin, is these film collectors may not want the publicity at all. Just the opposite. Some film collectors are very private individuals. Made this way, no doubt to me, by the way some film collectors were treated in the past. Like "criminals" with pirated booty. Publicity would be the last thing certain collectors would want. To quote, Great White, "Once Bitten, Twice Shy" |
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Post by Sue Butcher on Jan 15, 2023 2:15:51 GMT
And you might not want the "wrong people" to know that you have something valuable and sought after sitting at home. Thieves, I mean.
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Post by mattg on Jan 15, 2023 7:13:06 GMT
Within reason - such as a tickertape procession down the Mall or a service of thanksgiving In Westminster Abbey - I’m sure that a decent amount of publicity could be easily arranged for someone returning a ME. AFAIK almost everyone knows everyone else so a piccie on the cover of DWM holding a film can probably wouldn’t be too much aggro. The other side of this coin, is these film collectors may not want the publicity at all. Just the opposite. Some film collectors are very private individuals. Made this way, no doubt to me, by the way some film collectors were treated in the past. Like "criminals" with pirated booty. Publicity would be the last thing certain collectors would want. To quote, Great White, "Once Bitten, Twice Shy" I had of course considered that such individuals might well wish to preserve their anonymity rather than discard it. Nevertheless there are those, our very own Phil Morris for one, who clearly catch the media ‘bug’ and rather enjoy the attention it brings them… …That is until they start complaining about invasive fan scrutiny they themselves have wilfully engendered obviously.  |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 15, 2023 8:59:40 GMT
As I’ve previously outlined, if someone with a ME wants privacy there’s no problem with that. All they need to do is have contact with a single person, such as PV, who is guaranteed to keep quiet. Nobody is really concerned about where the ME comes from, just that it’s back.
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Post by Natalie Sinead on Jan 15, 2023 20:50:56 GMT
Just a quiet reminder that the Australian person that recorded the 8mm cine-film has stayed anonymous because they know how loony fans act about the lost episodes.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 15, 2023 21:40:13 GMT
Just a quiet reminder that the Australian person that recorded the 8mm cine-film has stayed anonymous because they know how loony fans act about the lost episodes. And umpteen years later they’re still anonymous, which has to be close to conclusive proof that if you don’t want publicity your wish can be granted. |
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Post by mattg on Jan 16, 2023 1:44:16 GMT
As I’ve previously outlined, if someone with a ME wants privacy there’s no problem with that. All they need to do is have contact with a single person, such as PV, who is guaranteed to keep quiet. Nobody is really concerned about where the ME comes from, just that it’s back. Well John I was simply trying to be pragmatic about this excessively debated issue considering that financial compensation justifiably remains off the table as far as recovering missing film and TV held in private hands goes. At the end of the day though perhaps a minority of fans expend a little too much energy in trying to understand why anyone in possession of missing material (allegedly) might decline to share it with the rest of us. In fact I can confidently diagnose such motives/foibles quite succinctly: Awkward Old Bugger Syndrome!It’s very much a ‘bloke’ thing as you might imagine and manifests with ever greater frequency as one ages... |
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Post by Gary Wilson on Jan 16, 2023 8:19:23 GMT
the belief that "of course most will love to hand them over!" just is not true Actually, it is very much true. People always seem to look at the current position as the absolute and forget that since the 80s, a great many collectors and hunters have done just that. What we are left with now are largely those that have no such interest in returning, for whatever reason, but we should never forget the good intentions of previous donators from whom we have all benefitted. (Also we cannot dismiss that someone who holds any missing material now might also have been responsible for previous returns....?) |
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Post by Gary Wilson on Jan 16, 2023 8:24:55 GMT
Yep and unfortunately you get the ones who are probably rubbing their hands together waiting forever for magic cheque in hand and their set for life. Or the ones who won't return it because of their sentimental attachment to it. Fact is its very difficult to change one's mindsets from those views. I’ve often wondered whether a bit of strategic (and very cynical) ego stroking might not tease a rumoured missing episode or two from the hands of stubborn collectors in lieu of remuneration. By that I mean the prospect of garnering (relative) public recognition via a gushing interview in DWM, generous feature in the Radio Times followed by a jovial appearance on BBC Breakfast et al could conceivably persuade some to part with missing material for gratis. Of course such fleeting rewards might seem a little disproportionate if the episode returned was from a less ‘sexy’ story like The Massacre! Indeed whilst the recovery of any missing ‘Who is obviously welcomed by fans to secure the general public’s attention (and more crucially the media’s) one suspects the Daleks and/or Cybermen would be required. Needless to say all of the above assumes the likes of Phil Morris haven’t already tried such ploys on obstinate collectors… I'd say that tactic has very much been employed WITH Phil rather than by him! |
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