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Post by John Wall on Sept 6, 2022 12:40:32 GMT
I can. Crowdfunding would barely scratch the surface of what animations cost. What does it cost? Richard That’s the figure we’re unlikely to get because of commercial confidentiality. There are a lot of known unknowns for every episode, such as the number of scenes/sets and characters. This is what is believed to have sunk the Crusade. Timing can also be important. I have a vague recollection that the colourisation of PoTD3 - before colour recovery came along - was commissioned when the £ was doing well against the $. More DW for your buck! There can also be advantages in buying during an economic downturn as suppliers may do things at cost or even a small loss in order to preserve a capability. We can only guess - wildly - at the budget for a release like Faceless Ones, Evil or Snowmen. |
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 565
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Post by Richard Develyn on Sept 6, 2022 15:02:57 GMT
I don't think you would be breaking commercial confidentiality if you said that animating a missing episode would cost in the order of £10k, or £50k or £100k or whatever.
IMO. But anyway, no harm in asking :-)
Richard
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Post by John Wall on Sept 6, 2022 16:49:38 GMT
I don't think you would be breaking commercial confidentiality if you said that animating a missing episode would cost in the order of £10k, or £50k or £100k or whatever. IMO. But anyway, no harm in asking :-) Richard I’d like to agree 👍 If you’re thinking about crowdfunding it would give an indication as to whether it would be feasible. Would 1000 DW fans stump up, at least, £10 each that would be knocked off the DvD/BluRay purchase price? That’s £10k. I dunno the answer. |
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Post by barneyhall on Sept 6, 2022 18:32:46 GMT
I mean I think with just a little bit of logic and maybe some help from Google you can make an estimated ball park of the cost of the animations. I mean if you think about the fact that they are produced by teams of people and each one has taken a year or so to do. And think how skilled an animators job is it would have to cover the salaries of many people who won't be on any where near minimum wage and be some meat left on the bone for profit. The sum we are talking about is going to be in the 100's of thousands.if I was hazzarding a guess I'd say 250-300k. I think with BBC America partnering and televising the animation they were effectively subsidising the blu ray dvds. I'd love a crowd fund hell I'd pay the full 30 in advance for a steel book but will 10,000 others or 20,000 at a £15 dvd price. I'm not so sure. I think the best bet for an animation partner would be a streaming platform where they can show it possibly exclusively for a while to recoup costs and then have people double dip on a physical release. Maybe britbox since they have the rest of who.
Tldr animations are expensive, I'd love them to make more but the market probably isn't there from dvd/blu ray alone.
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Post by RhysH on Sept 6, 2022 20:22:22 GMT
Crowdfunding is interesting - I’ve participated in the funding of one project to make a documentary about the final location of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and restoring the graveyard shootout location - film was called “Sad Hill Unearthed”.
Funding was set at different levels so you might get a limited edition poster, disk of the film, a cross in the graveyard to put the name of your choice on and many other bits, all for varying levels of donation.
Crucially, one other was your name in the credits! Now that type of thing will get some interest from our fan base - limited edition merch and a credit for all to see!
But back to the disk, fantastic release, the animation is excellent and the restoration on episode 2 is spot on - such good quality as is the sound on these episodes - how lucky are we for all those that made the recordings all those years back? Amazes me all the time!
Right - on to the extras!
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Sept 6, 2022 22:34:26 GMT
The Buddhist narrative of Abominable Snowmen predates Barry Letts's inclination towards the philosophy during the Pertwee era so in a way it's actually the beginning of a story arc that will end in the Dr's 2nd regeneration. Absolutely fascinating!
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Sept 6, 2022 22:41:11 GMT
Sorry,3rd regeneration!
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Post by John Wall on Sept 6, 2022 22:56:01 GMT
Some interesting posts 👍 What does a 25 minute animation cost? I had a lightbulb moment and Googled it 👍 This www.creativehumans.com/blog/how-much-animation-cost was one of the sites that came up: - $10,000-$20,000 Per Minute. This price range is the minimum for a professionally produced animated video. At this rate, the animation studio will deliver scripting, voice over, art direction, character animation, advanced transitions, and more. On that basis a DW episode could be c. $250k - something over £200k - so I think Barney wins the prize 🏆🥇 If that’s the right order of magnitude you could be looking at approaching £500k for the Crusade, and how many DVDs or BluRays would that sell? |
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Post by John Wall on Sept 6, 2022 23:00:55 GMT
The Buddhist narrative of Abominable Snowmen predates Barry Letts's inclination towards the philosophy during the Pertwee era so in a way it's actually the beginning of a story arc that will end in the Dr's 2nd regeneration. Absolutely fascinating! There’s the arc from Green Death through Dinosaurs to Spiders, it’s a pity the latter didn’t directly reference and link back to Snowmen, a missed opportunity. |
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Post by josephsenior on Sept 6, 2022 23:27:56 GMT
Some interesting posts 👍 What does a 25 minute animation cost? I had a lightbulb moment and Googled it 👍 This www.creativehumans.com/blog/how-much-animation-cost was one of the sites that came up: - $10,000-$20,000 Per Minute. This price range is the minimum for a professionally produced animated video. At this rate, the animation studio will deliver scripting, voice over, art direction, character animation, advanced transitions, and more. On that basis a DW episode could be c. $250k - something over £200k - so I think Barney wins the prize 🏆🥇 If that’s the right order of magnitude you could be looking at approaching £500k for the Crusade, and how many DVDs or BluRays would that sell? Seems like at minimum the animations would require 1 Million GBP. That's just for animation and extra features rights. I would love to say we'd raise that but it would be very unlikely. I wish we could |
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Post by George D on Sept 7, 2022 17:12:40 GMT
There are different levels of animation. Disney like animation is in the millions. Flash animations very low cost.
My suspicion is dw animation is a combination of the lower end and people who truly care who will work for a smaller amount.
That being said, all parties I'm sure need to recover cost for a dvd release that is not a top seller. hence the funding and broadcast by bbc America helps make a better product by instilling more capital and also increasing visibility
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Post by John Wall on Sept 7, 2022 21:28:56 GMT
There are different levels of animation. Disney like animation is in the millions. Flash animations very low cost. My suspicion is dw animation is a combination of the lower end and people who truly care who will work for a smaller amount. That being said, all parties I'm sure need to recover cost for a dvd release that is not a top seller. hence the funding and broadcast by bbc America helps make a better product by instilling more capital and also increasing visibility I’m afraid I know little about animation but prefer it to telesnap reconstructions. Let’s consider it at half the $10k per minute. It’s still a lotta dosh! It would make the two episodes of the Crusade $250k rather than $500k - that’s less, of course, in £. Another thing we’re unsure of is the number of sales although WoF sold 15k in the first week in the UK www.doctorwho.tv/news-and-features/web-of-fear-breaks-doctor-who-dvd-sales-record At, say, £20 each that’s £300k but Auntie doesn’t get all of that. Sell through channels like Amazon and they take a cut - I can think of small, specialist, publishers that avoid Amazon, etc as they lose too much. I’d love an insight into the figures behind DW DVDs, etc but it won’t happen. |
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Post by George D on Sept 7, 2022 22:58:58 GMT
I would throw the 10k-20k per minute estimate away.
For example Josh did some amazing animation, and while I'm not sure how long it took him, if it took him a year full time, it's value could be a years salary.
Technology has made animation much more cost effective.
Based on the variable quality of animation results on the DVDs, i dont believe we are in the same league as 10-20k per minute.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Sept 7, 2022 23:01:59 GMT
This is without doubt the best animation yet,driven by a superb and mature narrative.Engrossing and thought provoking,it touches upon elements that would be examined further during the Pertwee era.Such a shame that only episode 2 remains as a 16mm film print as in it's entirety it would rival Tomb or Enemy as one of the best stories of the Troughton era.The location footage in episode 2 is breathtaking and crystal clear.
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Post by John Wall on Sept 7, 2022 23:10:25 GMT
I would throw the 10k-20k per minute estimate away. For example Josh did some amazing animation, and while I'm not sure how long it took him, if it took him a year full time, it's value could be a years salary. Technology has made animation much more cost effective. Based on the variable quality of animation results on the DVDs, i dont believe we are in the same league as 10-20k per minute. What’s a years salary for an animator? |
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