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Post by Ronnie McDevitt on Sept 11, 2021 13:54:03 GMT
In just a few weeks it will be the fortieth publication anniversary of the 1981 DWM Winter Special. This was eagerly awaited as the monthly had informed readers it would feature a list of the status of the 1960s serials - and of course interest had been fuelled by the ongoing `Five Faces' season of repeats. What a disappointment the findings were. From the four most fondly remembered Troughton serials just one solitary episode remained with `NONE' next to Tomb, Power and Evil. This was devastating news for those who recalled the original broadcasts - and just at a time when the BBC had finally started repeating classic stories. Now a further nine have resurfaced from those serials, including all of the then much missed Tomb. It makes interesting reading today from the perspective of what we now have, and of course others such as Masterplan also had `none' alongside their entries. I guess the b&w stories were much fresher in the memory in 1981 and the article posed more questions than answers - why 1,2 & and 3 of Tenth Planet but no final part, and why was the opening episode of The Invasion not around? - an error listed part 4 as surviving. It may be that a DWAS publication had previously imparted the information, but that 1981 magazine was the first time most fans became aware of what was and was not archived.
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Post by Bob Liss on Sept 11, 2021 15:42:25 GMT
Looked at the thread which explains the recording made by Michael Craze, however, it doesn't explain what I'm seeing on the tape I have. It starts with Michael's introduction, the three orphaned episodes and then some kind of "reconstruction" of episode 4. It's mostly video of the episode (some still frames) but it's of very low quality. It appears to be a copy of a copy (no idea how many generations). I know episode 4 is missing so I've never quite known what I'm seeing on this tape. Have pieces of other episodes been copied for this "reconstruction" in an attempt to try to fool the viewer into thinking they are seeing episode 4? Is it possible it really includes real parts of episode 4? Seems highly unlikely but I just don't know. Thoughts?
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 11, 2021 15:50:13 GMT
Looked at the thread which explains the recording made by Michael Craze, however, it doesn't explain what I'm seeing on the tape I have. It starts with Michael's introduction, the three orphaned episodes and then some kind of "reconstruction" of episode 4. It's mostly video of the episode (some still frames) but it's of very low quality. It appears to be a copy of a copy (no idea how many generations). I know episode 4 is missing so I've never quite known what I'm seeing on this tape. Have pieces of other episodes been copied for this "reconstruction" in an attempt to try to fool the viewer into thinking they are seeing episode 4? Is it possible it really includes real parts of episode 4? Seems highly unlikely but I just don't know. Thoughts? Hi Bob, first of all where did the tape you have come from? Obviously without seeing it it’s very difficult to give an objective answer.
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Post by jcoleman on Sept 12, 2021 1:30:04 GMT
Looked at the thread which explains the recording made by Michael Craze, however, it doesn't explain what I'm seeing on the tape I have. It starts with Michael's introduction, the three orphaned episodes and then some kind of "reconstruction" of episode 4. It's mostly video of the episode (some still frames) but it's of very low quality. It appears to be a copy of a copy (no idea how many generations). I know episode 4 is missing so I've never quite known what I'm seeing on this tape. Have pieces of other episodes been copied for this "reconstruction" in an attempt to try to fool the viewer into thinking they are seeing episode 4? Is it possible it really includes real parts of episode 4? Seems highly unlikely but I just don't know. Thoughts? The Tenth Planet section of this document provides the details you seek Bob: homepages.bw.edu/~jcurtis/TLLOT-Recons-VolumeOne-June2014.pdfBasically you were right when you suggested footage from the other three episodes was used, not to fool the viewer as such, but to reconstruct the missing fourth episode. Michael Palmer was one of the pioneers of lost episode reconstructions and a variety of styles and approaches were experimented with over the years. This was a relatively early effort and included the surviving 8mm footage from Episode 4 recorded off-air as well as the regeneration clip from Blue Peter mixed in with the footage from the other episodes.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Sept 12, 2021 9:01:28 GMT
Stephen Cranford did start, but as far as I know never finish (about 8 minutes if I recall), a reconstruction of TP4 prior to the telesnap find, where he used footage of the other three episodes. Don't know if that ever got out and about.
Richard
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Post by Bob Liss on Sept 12, 2021 14:26:12 GMT
Looked at the thread which explains the recording made by Michael Craze, however, it doesn't explain what I'm seeing on the tape I have. It starts with Michael's introduction, the three orphaned episodes and then some kind of "reconstruction" of episode 4. It's mostly video of the episode (some still frames) but it's of very low quality. It appears to be a copy of a copy (no idea how many generations). I know episode 4 is missing so I've never quite known what I'm seeing on this tape. Have pieces of other episodes been copied for this "reconstruction" in an attempt to try to fool the viewer into thinking they are seeing episode 4? Is it possible it really includes real parts of episode 4? Seems highly unlikely but I just don't know. Thoughts? Hi Bob, first of all where did the tape you have come from? Obviously without seeing it it’s very difficult to give an objective answer. I got this tape through a fan network. I obtained four tapes in order to see the seventeen orphaned episodes from The Reign of Terror, The Tenth Planet, The Ice Warriors and The Invasion before official releases from the BBC were ever done. Was surprised episode 4 of The Tenth Planet was included on the tape but never really quite knew what it was. Parts seemed like they were possibly legitimate but video freezes, and lip sync issues, always made me question what I was seeing.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Sept 12, 2021 20:09:34 GMT
One thing I find odd about the recent article on Missing Episodes in DWM is that absolutely no mention is made about the episodes held by private collectors even though Philip Morris and Paul Vanezis have gone on record stating their existence. Instead we get a rehash of similar articles written on the topic over the years and a lame lead about a Forces TV of the Ether where missing episodes might have ended up.DWM's take on the subject is still some gentlemanly ideal of serendipity without dealing with the central issue of an underground world where missing episodes are held and most importantly the surrounding potential trauma and abuse that collectors fear from fandom and how that prevents them from handing over the episodes to the BBC.Why was such an important omission made from the article?Was it a way of diverting attention away from this and if so,what would have been the point when it's already all over the Internet?A case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted!
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Post by John Wall on Sept 12, 2021 20:37:49 GMT
One thing I find odd about the recent article on Missing Episodes in DWM is that absolutely no mention is made about the episodes held by private collectors even though Philip Morris and Paul Vanezis have gone on record stating their existence. Instead we get a rehash of similar articles written on the topic over the years and a lame lead about a Forces TV of the Ether where missing episodes might have ended up.DWM's take on the subject is still some gentlemanly ideal of serendipity without dealing with the central issue of an underground world where missing episodes are held and most importantly the surrounding potential trauma and abuse that collectors fear from fandom and how that prevents them from handing over the episodes to the BBC.Why was such an important omission made from the article?Was it a way of diverting attention away from this and if so,what would have been the point when it's already all over the Internet?A case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted! What “potential trauma and abuse”? If someone had a ME - or two, as they’re often like Krynoid pods and travel in pairs - they could have as much publicity or anonymity as they wanted. The likes of PV have been doing this for decades and a ME could easily be returned with no questions asked. If a collector had a ME but wanted to keep the print it could quickly be cleaned and digitised before being returned. All that’s needed is one, trustworthy, person as an intermediary and, without the mind probe, they can take the collectors name to their grave.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Sept 12, 2021 21:01:10 GMT
One thing I find odd about the recent article on Missing Episodes in DWM is that absolutely no mention is made about the episodes held by private collectors even though Philip Morris and Paul Vanezis have gone on record stating their existence. Instead we get a rehash of similar articles written on the topic over the years and a lame lead about a Forces TV of the Ether where missing episodes might have ended up.DWM's take on the subject is still some gentlemanly ideal of serendipity without dealing with the central issue of an underground world where missing episodes are held and most importantly the surrounding potential trauma and abuse that collectors fear from fandom and how that prevents them from handing over the episodes to the BBC.Why was such an important omission made from the article?Was it a way of diverting attention away from this and if so,what would have been the point when it's already all over the Internet?A case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted! What “potential trauma and abuse”? If someone had a ME - or two, as they’re often like Krynoid pods and travel in pairs - they could have as much publicity or anonymity as they wanted. The likes of PV have been doing this for decades and a ME could easily be returned with no questions asked. If a collector had a ME but wanted to keep the print it could quickly be cleaned and digitised before being returned. All that’s needed is one, trustworthy, person as an intermediary and, without the mind probe, they can take the collectors name to their grave. But isn't the reality actually the reverse?Didn't PM say he was subjected to the same thing when he announced his recoveries in 2013 and that collectors had raised the same concerns about the episodes in their possession which prevented them for handing them over?
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Post by John Wall on Sept 13, 2021 8:41:36 GMT
What “potential trauma and abuse”? If someone had a ME - or two, as they’re often like Krynoid pods and travel in pairs - they could have as much publicity or anonymity as they wanted. The likes of PV have been doing this for decades and a ME could easily be returned with no questions asked. If a collector had a ME but wanted to keep the print it could quickly be cleaned and digitised before being returned. All that’s needed is one, trustworthy, person as an intermediary and, without the mind probe, they can take the collectors name to their grave. But isn't the reality actually the reverse?Didn't PM say he was subjected to the same thing when he announced his recoveries in 2013 and that collectors had raised the same concerns about the episodes in their possession which prevented them for handing them over? PM was identified with Enemy and Web and the story behind the recovery has been a little variable. If I had/found a ME I could drop, say, PV, a note and hand it over. He’d ensure it received any necessary TLC and was then stored in the optimal archival conditions. It might be shown at the NFT, released on DVD or BluRay or maybe put on a streaming service. He’d just say that it was recovered from someone who wants to remain anonymous. End of story.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Sept 13, 2021 10:56:09 GMT
One thing I find odd about the recent article on Missing Episodes in DWM is that absolutely no mention is made about the episodes held by private collectors even though Philip Morris and Paul Vanezis have gone on record stating their existence. I'm not sure what you'd expect them to say, Jaspal. Paul has only seen the film cans and knows what's written on them, but he's not had any confirmation that the films inside match the labels and Philip hasn't released any details of the episodes he thinks are existing or indeed why he thinks that - so we don't ahve a clue if he has proof or whether it's just his supposition. There's not really anything to say.
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Post by Gary Sayers on Sept 13, 2021 17:55:05 GMT
Earlier today, there was a posting on the 'missing believed wiped' Facebook page (I don't have Facebook but the page is viewable by anyone) that was asking if anyone knew of any missing material that was out there (I think it was started by Ray Langstone). There were many replies, including one who said they knew someone with 2 missing Doctor Who episodes and they weren't the ones that had been mentioned before by anyone. Lots of people asked for more details and the poster said to PM him.
It all looked quite exciting and I thought it could be promising. Just looked again this evening and the post and the whole of the comments appear to have been removed. Either that or they have been moved somewhere that I can't see. Anyone else see this post and if so, any idea what's happened to it?
EDIT - Panic over, it's back now. No idea why it wasn't there when I tried looking earlier (probably my lack of experience of using facebook). Anyway, sounds promising.
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Post by John Wall on Sept 13, 2021 19:22:10 GMT
Earlier today, there was a posting on the 'missing believed wiped' Facebook page (I don't have Facebook but the page is viewable by anyone) that was asking if anyone knew of any missing material that was out there (I think it was started by Ray Langstone). There were many replies, including one who said they knew someone with 2 missing Doctor Who episodes and they weren't the ones that had been mentioned before by anyone. Lots of people asked for more details and the poster said to PM him. It all looked quite exciting and I thought it could be promising. Just looked again this evening and the post and the whole of the comments appear to have been removed. Either that or they have been moved somewhere that I can't see. Anyone else see this post and if so, any idea what's happened to it? EDIT - Panic over, it's back now. No idea why it wasn't there when I tried looking earlier (probably my lack of experience of using facebook). Anyway, sounds promising. Be wary if they’re from the north west, Blackpool in particular…….
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Post by barneyhall on Sept 13, 2021 19:27:13 GMT
Be wary of random strangers announcing they have it in Facebook....if it was legit you'd hear about it through the proper channels. If it's true I'll eat my copy of city of death in dvd. Box and disc!!
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Post by josephsenior on Sept 13, 2021 21:41:29 GMT
Earlier today, there was a posting on the 'missing believed wiped' Facebook page (I don't have Facebook but the page is viewable by anyone) that was asking if anyone knew of any missing material that was out there (I think it was started by Ray Langstone). There were many replies, including one who said they knew someone with 2 missing Doctor Who episodes and they weren't the ones that had been mentioned before by anyone. Lots of people asked for more details and the poster said to PM him. It all looked quite exciting and I thought it could be promising. Just looked again this evening and the post and the whole of the comments appear to have been removed. Either that or they have been moved somewhere that I can't see. Anyone else see this post and if so, any idea what's happened to it? EDIT - Panic over, it's back now. No idea why it wasn't there when I tried looking earlier (probably my lack of experience of using facebook). Anyway, sounds promising. This sounds like one of those my cousin's in laws sister said her cousin had a copy of a ME which no one else has. I wouldn't trust anything coming from Facebook or any of the big media platforms until there is confirmation from the BBC themselves.
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