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Post by isaacc on Aug 15, 2021 1:37:55 GMT
Please forgive me if this kind of thread is not allowed on this forum, I'm new and I don't have much experience here.
What episodes do you genuinely and realistically think are out there? Personally, I think Masterplan 4, Tenth Planet 4, and Web 3 are more than likely still in existence. What are your opinions?
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Post by stevehoare61 on Aug 15, 2021 7:02:22 GMT
Could be absolutely anything..as we have seen over the years theres no logic to the order that missing material has surfaced by. Web of Fear 3 is a potential of course as is anything else, its just a shame that nothing has surfaced for such a long long time.
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Post by Ronnie McDevitt on Aug 15, 2021 9:18:36 GMT
Please forgive me if this kind of thread is not allowed on this forum, I'm new and I don't have much experience here. What episodes do you genuinely and realistically think are out there? Personally, I think Masterplan 4, Tenth Planet 4, and Web 3 are more than likely still in existence. What are your opinions?
Well the first two of those episodes were labelled to be the `most likely to exist' in Dr Who Bulletin well over thirty years ago. It remains to be seen if your third `more than likely' turns up or is filed in the same category as the Blue Peter episodes.
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Post by Vaughan Stanger on Aug 15, 2021 10:22:05 GMT
One of the joys of ME returns is the unexpected surprise. No one really expects The Highlanders ep. 3 to turn up, for example.
But FWIW (not much!), I suspect that what little remains to be found are all (or nearly all) Hartnells. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul's collector friend has an episode of The Reign of Terror or The Crusade. Here's hoping for an episode from one of the series we have nothing at all from so far.
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Post by John Wall on Aug 15, 2021 10:34:39 GMT
As has been pointed out, almost anything could turn up. We’ve got three episodes of Masterplan - a story that was never sold abroad.
One I’d rate as close to impossible is Feast of Stephen but I certainly wouldn’t eliminate anything else.
I think that more recoveries from foreign broadcasters are unlikely - there can’t be many, if any, that PM hasn’t now visited. It’s just about possible that some could’ve escaped destruction abroad like The Lion. Something I’ve asked before is which foreign countries have/had 16mm collecting as a hobby? That’s probably the best criteria for MEs surviving foreign destruction.
The other possible source is the batch returned from Australia in the 70s and from which returned MEs are known to have come. We know that DW episodes were “liberated” from that so there could be a couple more.
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Post by Richard Marple on Aug 15, 2021 20:53:14 GMT
Maybe another episode of Galaxy 4, as one turned up in the hands of a collector 10 years ago, who had no idea it was a missing episode.
It's possible the other episodes were officially destroyed but were picked out of a skip.
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Post by Ken Jacowitz on Aug 16, 2021 3:05:41 GMT
What worries me is collectors who have died whose family do not know the value of what they have inherited. They might store and forget the films in an environment that will cause the films to degrade. Or worse, throw them away.
Collectors! Please include in your will how valuable your collection is. And who it can be donated to, or how to sell.
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Post by Joe Haynes on Aug 16, 2021 13:47:01 GMT
Seeing as Series 1 and 2 were sold abroad the most, I expect anything from those stories. Also Wheel in Space seems to have been sold a lot more than the other missing stories of series 5, so that's possible.
I don't think we will see another episode from a story with no current surviving episodes.
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Post by John Wall on Aug 16, 2021 14:53:08 GMT
Seeing as Series 1 and 2 were sold abroad the most, I expect anything from those stories. Also Wheel in Space seems to have been sold a lot more than the other missing stories of series 5, so that's possible. I don't think we will see another episode from a story with no current surviving episodes. Problem is that from Season 1, apart from a couple of episodes of Reign of Terror that have been animated, we’re just missing Marco Polo which, despite a decent number of sales, seems a bit of a forelorn hope 👎 From Season Two it’s a couple of episodes of The Crusade.
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Post by richardwoods on Aug 16, 2021 16:48:12 GMT
Seeing as Series 1 and 2 were sold abroad the most, I expect anything from those stories. Also Wheel in Space seems to have been sold a lot more than the other missing stories of series 5, so that's possible. I don't think we will see another episode from a story with no current surviving episodes. Problem is that from Season 1, apart from a couple of episodes of Reign of Terror that have been animated, we’re just missing Marco Polo which, despite a decent number of sales, seems a bit of a forelorn hope 👎 From Season Two it’s a couple of episodes of The Crusade. You know, I’m not so sure. Call it a gut feeling but I still think some of Marco Polo will eventually surface. Don’t forget there’s (possibly) a couple of episodes still mouldering away in Iran. I’m watching Marco Polo on Netflix at the moment but no sign of a Police Box so far.
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Post by John Wall on Aug 16, 2021 20:07:33 GMT
Problem is that from Season 1, apart from a couple of episodes of Reign of Terror that have been animated, we’re just missing Marco Polo which, despite a decent number of sales, seems a bit of a forelorn hope 👎 From Season Two it’s a couple of episodes of The Crusade. You know, I’m not so sure. Call it a gut feeling but I still think some of Marco Polo will eventually surface. Don’t forget there’s (possibly) a couple of episodes still mouldering away in Iran. I’m watching Marco Polo on Netflix at the moment but no sign of a Police Box so far. I wonder if Iran is included in the half dozen? Not a good part of the world to go ME hunting though…….
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Aug 16, 2021 21:15:55 GMT
You know, I’m not so sure. Call it a gut feeling but I still think some of Marco Polo will eventually surface. Don’t forget there’s (possibly) a couple of episodes still mouldering away in Iran. I’m watching Marco Polo on Netflix at the moment but no sign of a Police Box so far. I wonder if Iran is included in the half dozen? Not a good part of the world to go ME hunting though……. The Dirty Half Dozen...
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Post by John Wall on Aug 16, 2021 23:33:59 GMT
I wonder if Iran is included in the half dozen? Not a good part of the world to go ME hunting though……. The Dirty Half Dozen... I have this vision of a James Bond type parachuting into Iran in search of 16mm prints of Marco Polo…..
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Aug 17, 2021 5:17:07 GMT
It's hard to really say what could or could not exist.
A lot of people like to look at how many known copies were created. However, if the "mortality" rate of these old reel copies was substantial, then it's really all about the reel being in the right place at the right time.
This is why Airlock and UM-2 survived. These episodes are from two seasons that did not sell as well, but happen to be thrown out on a lucky day someone decided to pick them up off the skip.
This is probably also why Dalek's Masterplan (arguably one of the least copied serials) has three surviving episodes ... yet Marco Polo doesn't even have a clip to its name. (Despite Marco Polo likely having more copies made than Masterplan).
There are a few key things to realize though:
1) Feast of Steven was never sold abroad, so starting off with no known copies puts it lower on the list than all other episodes. Still, the "Pilot" episode was found so technically a miracle could happen. (I wouldn't give my hopes up though on this one).
2) Mission to the Unknown is likely in the same boat as Feast of Steven.
3) Web of Fear 3 was actually SEEN at one point in the last 10 years. It's fate is unknown, and it's evident BBC isn't waiting on it. It's survival is probably banking on the same luck as any other missing episode by this point. We just need to hope it is lucky enough to survive.
4) Two episodes were confirmed safe with a collector. They just aren't with the BBC. (Haven't heard any updates on these two for quite some time, don't know if anything else was revealed. My assumption is they're still sitting safely in a collection.) (Recalling this fact always make me sad. I really want to know what they are! C'est la vie.)
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Aug 17, 2021 6:20:46 GMT
It's hard to really say what could or could not exist. A lot of people like to look at how many known copies were created. However, if the "mortality" rate of these old reel copies was substantial, then it's really all about the reel being in the right place at the right time. This is why Airlock and UM-2 survived. These episodes are from two seasons that did not sell as well, but happen to be thrown out on a lucky day someone decided to pick them up off the skip. This is probably also why Dalek's Masterplan (arguably one of the least copied serials) has three surviving episodes ... yet Marco Polo doesn't even have a clip to its name. (Despite Marco Polo likely having more copies made than Masterplan). There are a few key things to realize though: 1) Feast of Steven was never sold abroad, so starting off with no known copies puts it lower on the list than all other episodes. Still, the "Pilot" episode was found so technically a miracle could happen. (I wouldn't give my hopes up though on this one). 2) Mission to the Unknown is likely in the same boat as Feast of Steven. 3) Web of Fear 3 was actually SEEN at one point in the last 10 years. It's fate is unknown, and it's evident BBC isn't waiting on it. It's survival is probably banking on the same luck as any other missing episode by this point. We just need to hope it is lucky enough to survive. 4) Two episodes were confirmed safe with a collector. They just aren't with the BBC. (Haven't heard any updates on these two for quite some time, don't know if anything else was revealed. My assumption is they're still sitting safely in a collection.) (Recalling this fact always make me sad. I really want to know what they are! C'est la vie.) It will be interesting to see what new insights (if any) into the situation DWM will have in it's latest issue.Perhaps they will clarify the facts or confirm PM's knowledge that 6 episodes exist and the progression in negotiations with private collectors about their return.
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