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Post by John Wall on Nov 21, 2021 21:06:44 GMT
If you’d been paying attention you’d remember that Iran has been repeatedly identified as somewhere we don’t think anyone has been. I’m willing to start an appeal to buy you a one way ticket….. Perhaps you hadn’t noticed but this is the DW board and we know that PM has visited over 50 countries and that he’s been pretty thorough. As he’s had his “Accredited by Auntie” badge with him he’s almost certainly done as well as anyone possibly could. He reckons that WoF3 is out there somewhere but that’s about it. It’s clear that the search for DW at foreign broadcasters is pretty well complete - unless anyone has the coordinates and a convenient Police Box to pop over to Iran. Future recoveries are gonna be from collectors. Did you perhaps read what I said about the money owed to the Iranian government? As you will have noted, I used the phrase [î] amongst other places [/î] when referring to Iran. And its not clear that he has searched every country for that series Doctor who nor indeed will he have searched every country for BBC material. Nor is it clear that he was able to search thoroughly except in the case of Nigeria. As he himself says, not everything is documented Future recoveries may be from archives or indeed from collectors on the basis of the information. I had noticed about DW but this is a discussion and the nature of discussions is that they evolve to encompass things which are connected to the initial subject, such as in this case, methods of the recovery of material. And if you had paid attention (sorry to use your phrase), you will have noted the fifth point about which strangely you are uninterested. Yep, we all know about Iran - and none of us are brave, or stupid, enough, to contemplate going there. With 50+ countries visited, and somewhat less than that showed missing b&w DW, considering which countries we definitely know he visited and how easy others are to get to it’s reasonable to conclude that anywhere likely to have missing b&w DW has been checked. We can also conclude that he checked as thoroughly as he could and there’s nothing to suggest that anyone else could do better. Yep, not everything is documented, that’s why he’s been opening doors and applying the Mark One eyeball, does your granny know how to suck eggs? Don’t recall a fifth point - was probably asleep by then…..
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Post by John Wall on Nov 21, 2021 21:14:33 GMT
I wish he would write a book or do an extended interview listing all the places he has been, it would sure help clear up some things that is for sure. But we know he has not been to Iran, that's a given and possibly a dangerous situation. If he did go there and found something who knows they might hold up the prints for political reasons or even worse destroy them out of malice. I would not put anything past that regime in Tehran. I think as you say they will be more likely to hold them up. And the same situation applies to Zimbabwe given the perceived failure to hold the Lancester house agreements and to pay the money which formed part of that agreement. Robert Mugabe has only recently departed and there are still as far as I am aware sanctions on that country. Three was a story in the Sun some years ago suggesting that Mugabe was hoarding DW tapes….
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Post by fredjones1 on Nov 21, 2021 21:17:24 GMT
Did you perhaps read what I said about the money owed to the Iranian government? As you will have noted, I used the phrase [î] amongst other places [/î] when referring to Iran. And its not clear that he has searched every country for that series Doctor who nor indeed will he have searched every country for BBC material. Nor is it clear that he was able to search thoroughly except in the case of Nigeria. As he himself says, not everything is documented Future recoveries may be from archives or indeed from collectors on the basis of the information. I had noticed about DW but this is a discussion and the nature of discussions is that they evolve to encompass things which are connected to the initial subject, such as in this case, methods of the recovery of material. And if you had paid attention (sorry to use your phrase), you will have noted the fifth point about which strangely you are uninterested. Yep, we all know about Iran - and none of us are brave, or stupid, enough, to contemplate going there. Why? Isn't that a bit xenophobic in the true sense of the word? No we can't 1) He did not specifically look for doctor who did he and he runs a business. 2) The fact that he has visited 50 countries, does not mean he has always been able to thorough (this is only the case as far as we can tell in Nigeria. hence his comment for going for the haystack rather than the needle in that instance). It also means that he will not have specifically gone to search for doctor who given that this is greater than the number of countries which showed B&W prints. It follows with elegant inevitability that we don't know whether he has been to every country which showed doctor who. 3) You don't know of other methods and ignore the one I described earlier. You presume his is the only method even though I have highlighted certain caveats to his method. It really isn't the only method. If you were interested in the recovery of material as opposed to continuing this strange discussion, you would open your mind to the possibility that it is just possible that there are better ways of doing things without denigrating his excellent work. He hasn't been doing so systematically no. I'm not sure what the second part of the sentence means. Try reading what I write, it might perhaps be of interest. I repeated it twice Then again, it would be reasonable to interpret this given everything else as you wishing to be right in this discussion which is one point of view I suppose than the actual recovery of missing episodes. This from what understand is the point of this forum.
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Post by John Wall on Nov 21, 2021 21:21:24 GMT
Here’s a useful link broadwcast.org/index.php/First_airings_by_locationIt identifies the order in which foreign broadcasters showed DW. There are places like Mexico and Venezuela but they didn’t show anything that’s missing. I reckon that if the places that showed Marco Polo have been crossed off the list there probably isn’t anywhere missing b&w DW is likely to be 👎 Don’t mention Iran though!
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Post by John Wall on Nov 21, 2021 21:42:26 GMT
Yep, we all know about Iran - and none of us are brave, or stupid, enough, to contemplate going there. Why? Isn't that a bit xenophobic in the true sense of the word? No we can't 1) He did not specifically look for doctor who did he and he runs a business. 2) The fact that he has visited 50 countries, does not mean he has always been able to thorough (this is only the case as far as we can tell in Nigeria. hence his comment for going for the haystack rather than the needle in that instance). It also means that he will not have specifically gone to search for doctor who given that this is greater than the number of countries which showed B&W prints. It follows with elegant inevitability that we don't know whether he has been to every country which showed doctor who. 3) You don't know of other methods and ignore the one I described earlier. You presume his is the only method even though I have highlighted certain caveats to his method. It really isn't the only method. If you were interested in the recovery of material as opposed to continuing this strange discussion, you would open your mind to the possibility that it is just possible that there are better ways of doing things without denigrating his excellent work. He hasn't been doing so systematically no. I'm not sure what the second part of the sentence means. Try reading what I write, it might perhaps be of interest. I repeated it twice Then again, it would be reasonable to interpret this given everything else as you wishing to be right in this discussion which is one point of view I suppose than the actual recovery of missing episodes. This from what understand is the point of this forum. There’s nothing xenophobic about avoiding Iran - just common sense! Do you have anything to substantiate your repeated - and possibly defamatory - contention that he hasn’t been thorough? No, I thought not…. He’s after anything he can find, but he also happens to be a big DW fan - did you fail to notice that he was interviewed in front of a Tardis? When you get into a store - such as Jos, or others - you have no idea what’s there, that’s why you’ve gone in! Didn’t you hear him talking about non DW things he’d found? Do you have anything to substantiate your contention that he isn’t doing things systematically? No, I thought not….. You’re just making this 🤮🤮🤮 up…..
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Post by fredjones1 on Nov 22, 2021 6:56:34 GMT
Why? Isn't that a bit xenophobic in the true sense of the word? No we can't 1) He did not specifically look for doctor who did he and he runs a business. 2) The fact that he has visited 50 countries, does not mean he has always been able to thorough (this is only the case as far as we can tell in Nigeria. hence his comment for going for the haystack rather than the needle in that instance). It also means that he will not have specifically gone to search for doctor who given that this is greater than the number of countries which showed B&W prints. It follows with elegant inevitability that we don't know whether he has been to every country which showed doctor who. 3) You don't know of other methods and ignore the one I described earlier. You presume his is the only method even though I have highlighted certain caveats to his method. It really isn't the only method. If you were interested in the recovery of material as opposed to continuing this strange discussion, you would open your mind to the possibility that it is just possible that there are better ways of doing things without denigrating his excellent work. He hasn't been doing so systematically no. I'm not sure what the second part of the sentence means. Try reading what I write, it might perhaps be of interest. I repeated it twice Then again, it would be reasonable to interpret this given everything else as you wishing to be right in this discussion which is one point of view I suppose than the actual recovery of missing episodes. This from what understand is the point of this forum. There’s nothing xenophobic about avoiding Iran - just common sense! Well there is, perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word xenophobic. Well yes. why would it be defamatory except insofar as you take exception to the word xenophobic. Yes I do. See below. Er yes. And it was a Doctor who interview. And one can be a fan of many different things. It doesn't necessarily follow that he concentrated solely on Doctor Who In part because this is his livelihood. Yes. That's very interesting What is your point exactly? I do. he stated that in the case of Nigeria, he made the point that he had searched the whole haystack. In other words the whole country. Thus one can deduce that this is an exception. In other words that he has not always been systematic. As one person with a couple of other people who act as bodyguards, he has not been able to for the reasons I have outlined. He does the physical searching. And we have given two examples of countries (Iran and Zimbabwe) which he has not or is unlikely to have searched. And that's just off the top of my head. The claim that all archives/storehouses have been searched is simply not ture. Well no, it would not appear that I am. I took the trouble to listen to his interesting discussion and wrote what I wrote accordingly.
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Post by fredjones1 on Nov 22, 2021 9:37:27 GMT
One should also state the following. Two reasons why he was particularly successful in Nigeria are as follows
1) Philip Morris has been systematic there. It would not appear to apply in all countries for the reasons which I have outlined based his statements in the video
2) He also mentions people were very friendly to him upon his return to that country. This might have something to do with the fact that he had been kidnapped there. As such the government/government owned television ensure would have had a greater motive to ensure that he found missing material and thus helped him with leads and so on.
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Post by John Wall on Nov 22, 2021 16:15:59 GMT
This is getting dumb - the illogic is incredible.
There’s nothing to suggest PM isn’t being, or hasn’t been, thorough and/or systematic. However, on the basis that he hasn’t explicitly said that he went thousands of miles to a particular country and was thorough and systematic we’re expected to believe he wasn’t. Dunno what’s being smoked….
I’m not sure whether the accusation is that he hasn’t been specifically looking for DW or that he hasn’t been specifically looking for non-DW…. However, it’s absolutely clear that he’s - actively - looking for BOTH. In terms of missing b&w DW there looks to be less than 30 countries that showed it - and he’s been to more than 50. Consequently, in lots of places there’s little anticipation of finding DW MEs so he’s looking for anything that might be there. I think we’re expected to believe that if he gets in a store somewhere, depending upon whether there’s a full moon or an ‘r’ in the month, he looks for either DW on non-DW… Still smokin’ something dodgy…..
Oh, and wrt Iran…..I doubt that many, if any, insurance companies would provide cover. And, yes, we all know about it but I think most of us accept that it’s unlikely to be checked soon.
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Post by fredjones1 on Nov 22, 2021 17:11:22 GMT
This is getting dumb - the illogic is incredible. Well yes quite, yours is I am afraid. As part of this, you overlook so much which should be regarded as noteworthy despite the fact that this a forum devoted to those who want to recover missing episodes. For whatever reason, You just want to be proven right even though the evidence you have provided as well as the facts does not indicate this. Perhaps someone else might like to help you on here. I'll ignore the rather silly personal insults which are only really a comment upon yourself to the effect that you cannot argue. And indeed the evidence proves this There is evidence in the video that he has not always, for whatever reason, been able to be systematic. He mentioned in the video that he had been systematic in Nigeria because in that case he said he had searched for the haystack. I can post the link if you wish but then you will already have looked at the video. As such it follows that he will not have been systematic on other cases because in terms of being systematic he only really mentioned Nigerial He also relies upon "tips" You have also overlooked something else rather important. He was kidnapped in Nigeria and was rescued thanks to the help of the Nigerian government. He decided to return despite stating that he would not It is logical to suggest that the Nigerian government would have felt grateful for the fact that he decided to do so given that in doing so, this is a positive comment on their country which has an issue in the Nigerian delta in relation to kidnappings. And this would also explain why he found the people who helped him so friendly and such friendliness as well as the help which forms part of that and the reasons why they were so friendly would explain why things went to extra mile, so to speak, leaving him with a situation where he found the doctor who episodes as well as most notably a program about oil rigs and politics. The fact that he should receive such help is even more strange given that Nigeria apparently has a problem with pervasive corruption. One can differentiate what occurred there from other countries where he has not discovered so much. Perhaps they do not have so much of a motive to help him. Perhaps to allay such situations, he might even benefit from donations to reduce any cost to the people concerned. Exactly, so as there are 195 countries in the world, it does not necesarily follow that he searched the countries that showed doctor who because as, he says in the video, TIEA is a business and he has to look after his family As such he will take what is on offer. In the video, he says he is going on a plane which would necessarily mean that he is still searching. By the way had you noticed that there were difficulties because of the pandemic so that means he has been searching for less than a decade. In addition to what I noted above, you will note that he has not stated the search for DW has finished (even if he is aware of tips in relation to collectors which would of course be of interest) and indeed one should also state that Zimbabwe as well as Iran have not been searched. This will no doubt apply to Yemen and other places. Er why? His business is archive retrieval Not really able to argue are you? And there are lots of British people who do work in Iran so we can ignore that. They I think require insurance too.
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Post by fredjones1 on Nov 22, 2021 17:24:23 GMT
I mean I don't take what you said personally and I hope you don't take my pointing out that you cannot argue personally either.
It is rather counterproductive and not to say rather strange to go onto a missing episodes forum and to denigrate evidence to suggest there might be places to search on the basis of evidence which is provided by someone like PM and to do so just so for the sake of winning a petty argument.
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Post by Ralph Rose on Nov 22, 2021 17:39:56 GMT
The fact remains is that we haven’t heard a full accounting of the search by TIEA yet. We just have to keep on waiting. I wish he would write a book or do an extended interview listing all the places he has been, it would sure help clear up some things that is for sure. But we know he has not been to Iran, that's a given and possibly a dangerous situation. If he did go there and found something who knows they might hold up the prints for political reasons or even worse destroy them out of malice. I would not put anything past that regime in Tehran. That's if they didn't destroy them years ago....
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Post by fredjones1 on Nov 22, 2021 17:47:57 GMT
I wish he would write a book or do an extended interview listing all the places he has been, it would sure help clear up some things that is for sure. But we know he has not been to Iran, that's a given and possibly a dangerous situation. If he did go there and found something who knows they might hold up the prints for political reasons or even worse destroy them out of malice. I would not put anything past that regime in Tehran. That's if they didn't destroy them years ago.... Well they might have done in the 1970s but think of it this way, if you are a country which says it is owed 400 million by the united Kingdom, would you destroy anything which might belong to the UK bearing in mind that you might own other material? What would you do?
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Post by John Wall on Nov 22, 2021 18:58:09 GMT
This is getting dumb - the illogic is incredible.
There’s nothing to suggest PM isn’t being, or hasn’t been, thorough and/or systematic. However, on the basis that he hasn’t explicitly said that he went thousands of miles to a particular country and was thorough and systematic we’re expected to believe he wasn’t. Dunno what’s being smoked….
I’m not sure whether the accusation is that he hasn’t been specifically looking for DW or that he hasn’t been specifically looking for non-DW…. However, it’s absolutely clear that he’s - actively - looking for BOTH. In terms of missing b&w DW there looks to be less than 30 countries that showed it - and he’s been to more than 50. Consequently, in lots of places there’s little anticipation of finding DW MEs so he’s looking for anything that might be there. I think we’re expected to believe that if he gets in a store somewhere, depending upon whether there’s a full moon or an ‘r’ in the month, he looks for either DW or non-DW… Still smokin’ something dodgy…..
Oh, and wrt Iran…..I doubt that many, if any, insurance companies would provide cover. And, yes, we all know about it but I think most of us accept that it’s unlikely to be checked soon.
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Post by fredjones1 on Nov 22, 2021 19:12:53 GMT
This is getting dumb - the illogic is incredible. Well yes quite, yours is I am afraid. As part of this, you overlook so much which should be regarded as noteworthy despite the fact that this a forum devoted to those who want to recover missing episodes. For whatever reason, You just want to be proven right even though the evidence you have provided as well as the facts does not indicate this. Perhaps someone else might like to help you on here. I'll ignore the rather silly personal insults which are only really a comment upon yourself to the effect that you cannot argue. And indeed the evidence proves this There is evidence in the video that he has not always, for whatever reason, been able to be systematic. He mentioned in the video that he had been systematic in Nigeria because in that case he said he had searched for the haystack. I can post the link if you wish but then you will already have looked at the video. As such it follows that he will not have been systematic on other cases because in terms of being systematic he only really mentioned Nigerial He also relies upon "tips" You have also overlooked something else rather important. He was kidnapped in Nigeria and was rescued thanks to the help of the Nigerian government. He decided to return despite stating that he would not It is logical to suggest that the Nigerian government would have felt grateful for the fact that he decided to do so given that in doing so, this is a positive comment on their country which has an issue in the Nigerian delta in relation to kidnappings. And this would also explain why he found the people who helped him so friendly and such friendliness as well as the help which forms part of that and the reasons why they were so friendly would explain why things went to extra mile, so to speak, leaving him with a situation where he found the doctor who episodes as well as most notably a program about oil rigs and politics. The fact that he should receive such help is even more strange given that Nigeria apparently has a problem with pervasive corruption. One can differentiate what occurred there from other countries where he has not discovered so much. Perhaps they do not have so much of a motive to help him. Perhaps to allay such situations, he might even benefit from donations to reduce any cost to the people concerned. Exactly, so as there are 195 countries in the world, it does not necesarily follow that he searched the countries that showed doctor who because as, he says in the video, TIEA is a business and he has to look after his family As such he will take what is on offer. In the video, he says he is going on a plane which would necessarily mean that he is still searching. By the way had you noticed that there were difficulties because of the pandemic so that means he has been searching for less than a decade. In addition to what I noted above, you will note that he has not stated the search for DW has finished (even if he is aware of tips in relation to collectors which would of course be of interest) and indeed one should also state that Zimbabwe as well as Iran have not been searched. This will no doubt apply to Yemen and other places. Er why? His business is archive retrieval Not really able to argue are you? And there are lots of British people who do work in Iran so we can ignore that. They I think require insurance too. You repeated an earlier post to which I replied, the contents of which you ignored. Might I ask why? I am doing so because the contents might be regarded as important to those who wish to recover material, given that Nigeria for the reasons I have outlined, does appear to be a special case, one which would better inform future searches, including by the way Philip Morris. You appear to be against this
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Post by Ralph Rose on Nov 22, 2021 19:14:01 GMT
I mean I don't take what you said personally and I hope you don't take my pointing out that you cannot argue personally either. It is rather counterproductive and not to say rather strange to go onto a missing episodes forum and to denigrate evidence to suggest there might be places to search on the basis of evidence which is provided by someone like PM and to do so just so for the sake of winning a petty argument. Each country is different. They have their own social cue and taboos. So being systematic in one country, which would be helpful, would be disastrous in another. Going to Iran to search for two episodes of Doctor Who, is more likely to get you killed than receiving anything of value. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. Everything that you have suggested is already happening. The search that Philip Morris is doing is as you suggest. The search and leads he has are secret. And perhaps that secretively is what you object to? He is not going to coordinate his efforts and make his searches public. Doing so in the beginning, according to Philip Morris himself, is why Web 3 went missing in the first place. Paul Vanezis also said, (paraphrasing his remarks}, "As Soon as a missing episodes exact location is found, it puts the films in great danger until they are secured." How many prints have been destroyed because someone called the tv station and asked if they had prints? Example: After the phone query, the station searched their archive, found the prints in question, saw the outdated BBC contracts that state to destroy them. The station destroys them, then reports back saying they have nothing. The manager assuming that is what the caller really wanted. To make sure they held up their end of the contract. A similar fate may have befallen Web #3. Philip Morris is the only one in the field that has the authority to say, do not destroy, and please hand them back. Anyone else not knowing what they are doing, even if well intentioned, could screw things up disastrously.
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