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Post by Richard Marple on Jan 3, 2022 21:45:15 GMT
Alf voted Conservative, of course. Over the last 50 years, I've seen (unintersectionaled) working-class men become the symbols of everything that's wrong with the country. What was a Conservative cry against the poor, has been taken up and expanded by the Left. (At a pinch, the Tories would talk about the 'salt of the earth' proles. Think Margot Ledbitter in The Good Life), there's little chance of the Left saying that nowadays about any non-intersectional British working people). Don't forget a lot of Salt Of The Earth working class managed to climb the ladder when access to a better education became available. Also there was less of a class traitor attitude so many were encouraged to take their chances when they could. |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 3, 2022 21:59:57 GMT
Alf voted Conservative, of course. Over the last 50 years, I've seen (unintersectionaled) working-class men become the symbols of everything that's wrong with the country. What was a Conservative cry against the poor, has been taken up and expanded by the Left. (At a pinch, the Tories would talk about the 'salt of the earth' proles. Think Margot Ledbitter in The Good Life), there's little chance of the Left saying that nowadays about any non-intersectional British working people). Don't forget a lot of Salt Of The Earth working class managed to climb the ladder when access to a better education became available. Also there was less of a class traitor attitude so many were encouraged to take their chances when they could. Think of the barra boy accents in the City after the Big Bang, |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 3, 2022 22:48:20 GMT
Let me be more clear then what I'm trying to say: you're always using these exagerated terms and nazi/stalin analogies. It casts the whole question in such an epic struggle for freedom against the sinister forces inside the BBC. I find it all a bit ridiculous. Hyperboles help you blow off steam perhaps, but it does not do anything for a discussion or understanding what other people are trying to say or ask. In other words: Correctness, regardless whether too much or not, is not really the same as open repression, is it? There are no actual book burnings taking place. The "PC police" is a metaphor, it does not really exist. And this works the other way round just as well - open your ears because you'll love this: older series often aren't racist. Often they're more like prejudiced or biased. Tintin for example isn't racist in my view; I'd classify the earliest albums as extremely outdated, colonial, and patronising, but not in the same league as, say, the KKK. Also, I find it rather weak to just cry "censorship! what about our freedom!". While there may be genuine cases, that is the first thing that everyone always shouts who has ever been told to shut up with good reason too. True story. Just look at all the nutjobs kicked off social media for spreading misinformation. They will act all wronged when they have been "silenced" - the poor things(!)! Herge was quick to express his true political feelings in Tintin once the series had found his feet & his right wing editor (who had a picture of Mussolini on his desk!) wasn't interfering. The Land Of The Soviets was out of print for years before Herge reluctantly had it published in book form, mostly to stem the number of bootlegs, I presume made by people who had collected the original newspaper printings. The situation has slightly reversed, as it used to be Tintin in the Congo that started the series, with the Soviet album not generally available unless in some bibliophile collector's edition. Now it's the other way around. |
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Post by garygraham on Jan 3, 2022 23:28:14 GMT
We don't lose the right to use a word because someone else is having a worse time. If it's so unimportant here and doesn't matter why do you keep replying about it? Surely it should be people "in Belarussia and Hong Kong" you should be concerned about? Let me be more clear then what I'm trying to say: you're always using these exagerated terms and nazi/stalin analogies. It casts the whole question in such an epic struggle for freedom against the sinister forces inside the BBC. I find it all a bit ridiculous. Hyperboles help you blow off steam perhaps, but it does not do anything for a discussion or understanding what other people are trying to say or ask. In other words: Correctness, regardless whether too much or not, is not really the same as open repression, is it? There are no actual book burnings taking place. The "PC police" is a metaphor, it does not really exist. And this works the other way round just as well - open your ears because you'll love this: older series often aren't racist. Often they're more like prejudiced or biased. Tintin for example isn't racist in my view; I'd classify the earliest albums as extremely outdated, colonial, and patronising, but not in the same league as, say, the KKK. Also, I find it rather weak to just cry "censorship! what about our freedom!". While there may be genuine cases, that is the first thing that everyone always shouts who has ever been told to shut up with good reason too. True story. Just look at all the nutjobs kicked off social media for spreading misinformation. They will act all wronged when they have been "silenced" - the poor things(!)! Books don't need to be burnt. John Pilger says that not reporting is the most powerful form of censorship. I would add to that "not showing." Whether it's whole programmes or edits. This new puritanism is a minority view held by people who, increasingly, can't get their chosen politicians elected. So instead it's enforced through online attacks, no-platforming etc. The signs are all around: Brexit, Trump, Tory government for years, BBC audience figures. Short of abolishing democracy in the UK (and the EU was a partial attempt at that) you aren't going to win this. As we've seen in US cities, there is a destructive nihilistic side to this too. If we don't get what we want we will burn down your city so you can't have it... Unless they're stopped, one day soon people like this will be sitting amid the smoking ruins of the BBC telling us how they are the victims. We're well down that road already. Young and old alike switching off, half of TV Centre demolished, no good comedy, unable to make programmes like we used to due to an annual budget of "only" £5bn. |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 4, 2022 0:05:17 GMT
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Post by garygraham on Jan 4, 2022 0:17:48 GMT
"Extreme misogyny in Archaic Greece." Whoever would have expected and been prepared for that? Some young people don't seem to be equipped for daily life. It's a glass half empty attitude. Instead they could choose to look at the above and think how far we have come and isn't it marvellous... And that's why it's important that we ARE exposed to the past, warts and all. |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 4, 2022 0:25:17 GMT
"Extreme misogyny in Archaic Greece." Whoever would have expected and been prepared for that? Some young people don't seem to be equipped for daily life. It's a glass half empty attitude. Instead they could choose to look at the above and think how far we have come and isn't it marvellous... And that's why it's important that we ARE exposed to the past, warts and all. That’s my view. We’re teaching a generation that if there’s something they don’t like they can throw a wobbly and it’ll go away. However, the big wide world out there ain’t like that, it’s full of people who’ll just tell you where to go and what to do when you get there. I know, I’ve been there - and I doubt I’m unique. There are millions, probably tens of millions, who go to work, something happens, but they hold their breath and count to ten because they’ve got a mortgage to pay and a family to feed and they’re back the next day. |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 4, 2022 10:32:53 GMT
Some young people don't seem to be equipped for daily life. It's a glass half empty attitude. Instead they could choose to look at the above and think how far we have come and isn't it marvellous... And that's why it's important that we ARE exposed to the past, warts and all. And some old people can't handle some things either, it seems... Somewhere, someone is misjudging something. I'm sure that happened in every century and in all ideological directions. It ALMOST seems is if some enjoy worrying and acting wronged on behalf of stuff they didn't even know or care about until they heard it just now. If the daily mail reports it, it couldn't possibly be hyped or highly tendentious, could it. (Anyone remember the "winterval" straw man?) I'm reserving judgement until I head a reliable source on that. |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 4, 2022 10:42:15 GMT
As we've seen in US cities, there is a destructive nihilistic side to this too. Just FYI, if you're referring to confederate statues: they celebrate traitors and slavery - importantly from a recent period that is not as dead as it should be. If you oppose removing them with some BS like "but then how can we learn from history", then I guess that would say a LOT about you (well, IF that is the case). |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 4, 2022 10:56:03 GMT
Some young people don't seem to be equipped for daily life. It's a glass half empty attitude. Instead they could choose to look at the above and think how far we have come and isn't it marvellous... And that's why it's important that we ARE exposed to the past, warts and all. And some old people can't handle some things either, it seems... Somewhere, someone is misjudging something. I'm sure that happened in every century and in all ideological directions. It ALMOST seems is if some enjoy worrying and acting wronged on behalf of stuff they didn't even know or care about until they heard it just now. If the daily mail reports it, it couldn't possibly be hyped or highly tendentious, could it. (Anyone remember the "winterval" straw man?) I'm reserving judgement until I head a reliable source on that. There have been recent reports about UCL seeking to remove “dead white men” from the curriculum, just another nail in education’s coffin 👎 |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jan 4, 2022 11:23:45 GMT
And some old people can't handle some things either, it seems... Somewhere, someone is misjudging something. I'm sure that happened in every century and in all ideological directions. It ALMOST seems is if some enjoy worrying and acting wronged on behalf of stuff they didn't even know or care about until they heard it just now. If the daily mail reports it, it couldn't possibly be hyped or highly tendentious, could it. (Anyone remember the "winterval" straw man?) I'm reserving judgement until I head a reliable source on that. There have been recent reports about UCL seeking to remove “dead white men” from the curriculum, just another nail in education’s coffin 👎 I'm not saying people aren't fools, but I am saying, if you forgive me a slightly patronising angle here, that the daily mail has got you exactly where it wants to, or at least has got you two figured out. Somewhere, there's a change in a curriculum that you never heard of before and weren't planning to follow. I think everyone will agree that they wouldn't report the opposite if that happened in any form. So whether true or not (it remains to be seen TBH), in some ways it's just another bit of fodder for the indignation machine. It's the thing that some people love to hate. I am slightly changing the subject, but we were already widely off topic anyway. |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 4, 2022 12:47:53 GMT
There have been recent reports about UCL seeking to remove “dead white men” from the curriculum, just another nail in education’s coffin 👎 I'm not saying people aren't fools, but I am saying, if you forgive me a slightly patronising angle here, that the daily mail has got you exactly where it wants to, or at least has got you two figured out. Somewhere, there's a change in a curriculum that you never heard of before and weren't planning to follow. I think everyone will agree that they wouldn't report the opposite if that happened in any form. So whether true or not (it remains to be seen TBH), in some ways it's just another bit of fodder for the indignation machine. It's the thing that some people love to hate. I am slightly changing the subject, but we were already widely off topic anyway. The facts are not disputed - the censoring of the Ancient Greek text is widely reported. I have no objection to curriculum changes - in some technological subjects it happens almost continuously, and some make a good living by regularly updating text books. However, it’s not being done because something has been superseded but because of who wrote it - identity politics. Do you want the successful Covid vaccines dumped because they were produced by white westerners and replaced with an untried herbal remedy produced by someone in Africa? That’s where this leads. |
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Post by darrenlee on Jan 4, 2022 13:02:15 GMT
There have been recent reports about UCL seeking to remove “dead white men” from the curriculum, just another nail in education’s coffin 👎 I'm not saying people aren't fools, but I am saying, if you forgive me a slightly patronising angle here, that the daily mail has got you exactly where it wants to, or at least has got you two figured out. Somewhere, there's a change in a curriculum that you never heard of before and weren't planning to follow. I think everyone will agree that they wouldn't report the opposite if that happened in any form. So whether true or not (it remains to be seen TBH), in some ways it's just another bit of fodder for the indignation machine. It's the thing that some people love to hate. I am slightly changing the subject, but we were already widely off topic anyway. You are not as far off topic as usual. There is, as you immediately, correctly and unsurprisingly pointed out, an obvious bias in the presentation of the OP. Any censorship around e.g. modern taboo language is seen as sinister work by the left-controlled BBC, but e.g. cuts around ribbing of the Duke of Edinburgh's faux pas are just mysterious (when they might just as well be regarded as sinister work by the right-controlled BBC). And you can't get a much more 'right-wing' cut than taking the station of air for several days to try to enforce a period of national mourning for someone the hard left would have 'cancelled' long ago if they had any real power. In reality the BBC are just cutting anything that could conceivably land them in 'trouble', because 'trouble' over trivia comes much louder and harder than it ever used to. If you haven't seen it, take a look at the Daily Mirror article www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/bbc-hit-race-row-after-23291203 (the DM is genuinely left-leaning, not a parody) on 'ch**kgate' (it's a ridiculous over-reaction, suggesting the BBC has committed a terrible atrocity) and sadly is a vote-loser for the left. Yes, I would like radio episodes available to me uncut. If they are not, I want to know about it, not have them effectively 'passed off' (as they always are) as the 'original', so a list like this is indeed useful. |
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Post by garygraham on Jan 4, 2022 13:42:57 GMT
As we've seen in US cities, there is a destructive nihilistic side to this too. Just FYI, if you're referring to confederate statues: they celebrate traitors and slavery - importantly from a recent period that is not as dead as it should be. If you oppose removing them with some BS like "but then how can we learn from history", then I guess that would say a LOT about you (well, IF that is the case). I'm talking about Portland and San Francisco which have been taken to the brink by socially aware policies. The mayor of San Francisco declared a state of emergency in December after agreeing to "defund the police" a year ago. That went well. Looking at the Christmas ratings, soon BBC television won't be able to continue in its current form. You can't run cities to mainly benefit a tiny minority rather than the majority (who pay the bills). Nor can you run a national TV service in that way, "broadcast" television, the clue is in the name. |
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Post by John Wall on Jan 4, 2022 13:54:48 GMT
Just FYI, if you're referring to confederate statues: they celebrate traitors and slavery - importantly from a recent period that is not as dead as it should be. If you oppose removing them with some BS like "but then how can we learn from history", then I guess that would say a LOT about you (well, IF that is the case). I'm talking about Portland and San Francisco which have been taken to the brink by socially aware policies. The mayor of San Francisco declared a state of emergency in December after agreeing to "defund the police" a year ago. That went well. Looking at the Christmas ratings, soon BBC television won't be able to continue in its current form. You can't run cities to mainly benefit a tiny minority rather than the majority (who pay the bills). Nor can you run a national TV service in that way, "broadcast" television, the clue is in the name. Anyone interested in Portland should see www.city-journal.org/critical-race-theory-portland-public-schools - quite a long read. I was in Portland as recently as 2014 - nothing to worry about then. Much comes from what’s been described as “luxury” beliefs - things like “defund the police” come from middle class radicals, ordinary people, irrespective of skin colour, oppose them, as they’re the ones who lose out. Broadcasting is increasingly being replaced by narrowcasting - because of technology. I recall when a very average sitcom could get 15m viewers, largely because there were only three channels. Get 5m now and that’s huge. |
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