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Post by gary freeman on Oct 7, 2003 14:57:29 GMT
one day in 1968,the world stood on its head for a few days as i started to notice NEW ITV idents and great new kids programmes like MAGPIE appearing.But, what was best was regular regional soccer, shown every sunday afternoon. My father says its had always been there but i had never taken an interest before. im thinking he may be correct as i recall a tape of the 66 world cup final with hugh johns as commentator, and barry davies lists his first commentry as an itv game for itv in 66. if dad is right ( and even when wrong he is right) what was the extent of itvs coverage and did it compare with match of the day?
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Post by Kevin Mulrennan on Oct 7, 2003 18:51:05 GMT
Was The Big Match around then?
It certainly was in the 70's when the Villa/Blues derbies were shown on it. I think it was about an hour long and shown shortly before lunchtime.
The Big Match was regional, so if you were in Suffolk you'd see Ipswich/Norwich derbies.
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Post by Brian D not logged in on Oct 7, 2003 22:39:58 GMT
I started a thread a few months ago (the old board) on a similar theme, because I had been picked out by the cameraman at a Blackpool v Everton match in 1967, and wondered what was the likelihood of its surviving. There was no conclusive answer!
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Post by gary freeman on Oct 8, 2003 8:12:38 GMT
brian, this is interesting,you state the game was blackpool vs. everton. was the game shown on sunday afternoon on abc?. i trust you lived in the granada area!.
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Post by Laurence Piper on Oct 8, 2003 8:44:28 GMT
There certainly was regular Soccer on ITV prior to 1968. I can recall ATV's "Star Soccer" on Sunday afternoons for one thing (a predecessor to The Big Match). BBC had Match Of The Day from 1964 onwards (on BBC-2 initially) and there were regular sports shows like Sportsweek and Sportsview etc - not sure how much soccer was covered in that though.
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Post by Brian D not logged in on Oct 8, 2003 19:49:45 GMT
brian, this is interesting,you state the game was blackpool vs. everton. was the game shown on sunday afternoon on abc?. i trust you lived in the granada area!. Yes indeed, I did and do live in the Granada area! If it's of interest, Everton won 1-0 with a goal from Joe Royle. Alan Ball scored direct from a corner but it was disallowed...... |
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Post by Jez on Oct 9, 2003 7:54:15 GMT
ABCs programme was 'World of Soccer'.
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Post by robertpedley on Oct 9, 2003 10:27:17 GMT
I collected football videos on the 90's when they were being issued and became disturbed by the constant use of the same principally BBC material so started to check the TV listings to see what was available. ITV seemed to have a lot of material but it rarely appeared.
However prior to the 1968 shakeup it looks something like this.
ATV from Oct 1965 usually a London match with commentator Peter Lorenzo. Hugh Johns must have taken over some time perhaps the next season as in 1966-67 he and Billy Wright did the the Eng/ Scot match of Apr 67.
I have clips of HJ and WW doing Fulham v Liverpool in Dec 67 [on Ch 4 history of football] and Spurs v MU Feb 68. Perhaps most of it was trashed.
ABC= Indeed was called 'World of Soccer] and started around the same time
I have seen MU v norwich from early 67 [nice VT] which was probably ABC as I don't recognise the commentator [Gerry Loftus? I know he did a lot of Granada matches but being from Australia I don't have the first clue what he sounded like]
Anglia [from 62-63] and Tyne Tees [from 64] had their own shows which seem to survive to some degree as I've got videos's with clips from both on them.
Other midweek matches I assume survive as a whole lot of ITV England games were deposited in the UK NFTV archive from 1965-67 [with HJ and Gerry Loftus listed as being commentators].
I've seem a Feb 64 Granada Sporting Lisbon v Man U clip [Law scoring] and possibly Liverpool v Ajax from 66 [but I don't recognise the commentator]
Barry Davies first game was said to be Rediffusion's Chelsea v AC Milan in about Mar 66 and clips of this are on a BBC Chelsea video but with the commentary removed
This is very interesting as ITV had sole rights to a lot of significant matches in the 60's particularly Internationals and European games so perhaps they may turn up.
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Post by Laurence Piper on Oct 9, 2003 13:28:00 GMT
Interesting that a lot of the '60s soccer shows seemed to be regional. Was this the general pattern? Was ATV "Star Soccer" shown in other regions as well? I saw it London area (which was ATV London at that time, after all) but I presume it at least was also seen in the Midlands where ATV's other franchise was. A handful of these are in the NFTVA by the way. Not being a football fan though I wouldn't know about all the small details...
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Post by gary freeman on Oct 9, 2003 15:19:53 GMT
thanks for all the great info guys!. I too have seen a clip of a granada liverpool vs.ajax game from 66 ,and also a clip of the late great bobby moore scoring for england vs. poland at an international at goodison park prior to the world cup in 66, hugh johns did the commentary.also an england vs.germany game from 65 /66 at wembley,again with hugh johns. this was featured on the old, saint and greavesie lunchtime show.
one thing i have noticed about the old itv games is that they all still appear to be on vt. rather than film ala match of the day. hugh johns eh!! now thats a commentator!!!...
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Post by robertpedley on Oct 9, 2003 20:07:10 GMT
Yes Gary the 1964 sporting Lisbon/ MU match is also VT which probably may point to Granada being the source for many of these prints.
I have also seen the away [Amsterdam leg] of the 1966 Liverpool/Ajax but on TR without commentary [the Times lists HJ as doing the job though] and an incredibly blurry bit of VT [or a horrible night perhaps?] of a Derby C/ Leeds League cup semi from early 1968 with HJ commentating.
The ITV coverage of the 1968 EC final seems to exist as VT all the way through [unlike the BBC version] with HJ and Alf Ramsey doing the oohs and aaahs.
Listening to HJ all the way through games was interesting to our ears of today because he didn't seem to care much for accuracy or research, not identifying players correctly often and using incorrect nicknames
Perhaps the Blackpool/ Everton match of 1967 is out there after all.
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Post by JezR on Oct 10, 2003 6:08:50 GMT
The Midlands region wouldn't have Star Soccer, since at the weekend it was ABC - so had World of Soccer (incidentally I note there was no issue over the use of the word 'soccer' in those days - no one I guess wrongly thought of it as an Americanism.)
They Tyne Tees programme was 'Shoot!', Anglia's 'Match of the Week'. Sunday afternoons wasn't a standard through the 1960s; Shoot was shown late evening on Saturday for ecample.
Many regions had sports magazines of their own, usually on a Friday (Monday by ATV in the Midlands though).
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Post by Laurence Piper on Oct 10, 2003 8:03:39 GMT
That's cleared up a few things about regional sport shows that I never realised anyway. Incidentally, ITV Sport seem to have a lot of stuff still on VT, including some Wrestling coverage; I have seen clips in compilations which look like 405 line conversions (even a few optical ones). Not sure where the ITV Sport archive resides (LWT?) or what's in it exactly. Hopefully it's all being transferred along with the other stuff...
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Post by Brian D not logged in on Oct 10, 2003 8:51:05 GMT
A good thread this one; but it left me feeling, as I so often do, even if the programmes still exist - how on earth do we get to see them? Do any tv companies allow members of the public to view archive material (obviously a fee would be involved). I have had contact with the world of archivists - though admittedly not in a tv context - and although many local authorities pay lip service to the idea of promoting public interest and access, the reality is somewhat different.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, I had a burning desire to see Ronnie Goodlass's goal for Everton against West Ham at Upton Park in 1977 (btw he scored from the half way line, ball instantly hit, pre Beckhaming Beckham). I know it was on tv the next day (Sunday), although the fact that it hasn't been shown for many years might actually indicate that something as late as 1977 hasn't been preserved...But assuming it has, what do I do now?
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Post by GARY FREEMAN on Oct 10, 2003 10:07:03 GMT
Hugh Johns was, as brian moore described him, " itv, s big match commentator". I believe he left itv for a long period after martin tyler was handed the 1982 world cup final. he returned to itv commentating for htv in the early nineties. on the subject of itv's soccer archive, i am told it is held by the london news network,but as to how far it goes back, who knows?.
prior to the 1968 shake up did itv cover the f.a cup final or was this exclusive to bbc?. the first final i remember on itv was 1970, and i remember the previous year,69, on bbc.
i always think that itv should bring out there own soccer archive for dvd release i bet there would be some great finds that have not seen the light of day for 40 years.
i remember one sunday afternoon in the mid sixties seeing a team conceed a goal whilst the keeper was tying his bootlace....dont know which game it was but it would be great to see again.!!!!
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