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Post by John Green on Feb 5, 2014 23:45:15 GMT
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Post by John Wall on Feb 5, 2014 23:54:13 GMT
According to Ian, the films were "directly sent to Taiwan for a second broadcast". AFTN was a radio station. As I said, there wasn't a US TV station operating on Taiwan. So the films weren't sent to Taiwan for the reasons Ian suggests.
They sent them to Taiwan for a second broadcast, that doesn't necessarily mean a second broadcast actually happened. They could have messed up and thought there was a TV station and sent them all along, not realising it was only a radio station. Might explain why they just handed them out rather than dealing with them as other TV stations had, they didn't know what to do with them.
A smeg up ?
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Post by John Wall on Feb 6, 2014 0:11:13 GMT
You Sir... win a sock! Champagne comedy. I just laughed and spilled my coffee. I hope it wasn't coffee (Irish) and that the sock wasn't in a drawer full of missing episodes
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Post by Robert Lia on Feb 6, 2014 0:15:15 GMT
[/A smeg up ?[/quote]
Not necessarily. Tiawan while not having a TV station did host US facilities including a Naval Hosptial, it had housing areas for family members and all of the things that go with being an oveseas military base. If you have never lived on an overseas military base as I have done its kind of hard to understand. Lets just say overseas bases have more things that family members need than state side military bases. . . .
Now Bases had movie theaters that is true, so there were movies screened on the bases that did not have TV stations (as well as the bases that did have TV stations). Its possible im my humble opinion that the bases that did not have TV stations were sent TV programs on film that were screened on base theaters for family members. a film projector could be set up quite easily in a small room for viewing (I remeber in the 1970's watching 16mm films in my classrooms).
Another base that did not have an AFRTS TV Station was the Naval Air Station Midway Island which is half way between Hawaii and the Phillippines / Japan and used to be a major refueling stop for planes back then. Now its an emergency only divirt aircraft runway. They had 3,000 active duty, and family memebers stationed there. But no TV station. AFRTS would have sent them films to watch of course but there would be no TV listings to research..
I have seen Courtesy of Jon P. the TV listings of of AFRTS for Japan, Korea, Philippines and even Vietman and Doctor Who is not listed in any of thsoe TV guides for the period in question. apart from the two films from the 1960's.
We have together discoverd bases and listing for AFRTS broadcasts in Iceland. Once again Doctor Who is not on them..
I so hope that Ian's interview in Doctor Who magazine has some inforamtion on the paper work if any that was discoverd with these film prints because I WANT TO BELEIVE AFRTS ran the show but the TV Guides for the bases all say otherwise
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Post by John Wall on Feb 6, 2014 0:31:12 GMT
Unless we're the victims of a massive, Darren Gregory standard, hoax the episodes exist and are from Seasons One, Five and Six. If these were acquired for the purpose of exhibition then it's reasonable to assume that this involved complete stories.
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Post by Robert Lia on Feb 6, 2014 0:38:09 GMT
Of course it involved complete story's and lets not forget 2 episode's from season 7. I just hope that there is paperwork to back up what will be in the interview. As paperwork would end all doubts. Now I also believe its possible that they only purchased selected story's as well and not 7 years worth of shows in one go
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Post by Matthew Kurth on Feb 6, 2014 2:53:50 GMT
I WANT TO BELEIVE ADFRTS ran the show but the TV Guides for the bases all say otherwise
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Post by johnforbes on Feb 6, 2014 6:03:40 GMT
Nobody said anything about an Air Force TV station. These were sent to the Armed Forces Taiwan Network, which was a part of the Armed Forces Network until it closed down in 1976 "after the US moved its diplomatic status to China". According to Ian, the films were "directly sent to Taiwan for a second broadcast". AFTN was a radio station (I stand corrected: it was operated by the US navy, not air force). As I said, there wasn't a US TV station operating on Taiwan. So the films weren't sent to Taiwan for the reasons Ian suggests. Is it possible that the Dr Who episodes could have been labelled as for projection room only broadcast ? This would explain the need to then bicycle them around. So, Vietnam gets them first, sends them to Taiwan. And after Taiwan (if they were ever screened there, which is doubtful) gets them, they don't send them on anywhere else (maybe Dr Who didn't prove popular). In this scenario: Nam would be the 1st "broadcast" and Taiwan would be the second. This is the only way I can think of as to why the episodes weren't listed in any guides, why their broadcast is small, why they needed to be bicycled around, and why Taiwan is 2nd. However, unless Ian has seen some major bits of why/what for, paperwork, I don't see how he can make such claims that they were directly sent to Taiwan for a 2nd broadcast. More importantly, what is still up in the air, is exactly what the Americans were sent in the first place.
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Post by Robert Lia on Feb 6, 2014 6:19:00 GMT
Just to clarify for every ones information the Air Force Ran the actual broadcasts of AFRTS up until the mid 1970's so technically the stations were air force stations even though personal from the US Army, Navy Air Force and Marines were also assigned to those same stations. . .
I think they were sent to Chinese Taipei from South Vietnam to be routed threw Taiwan to the next broadcaster in the AFRTS Chain where ever that maybe.
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Post by johnforbes on Feb 6, 2014 6:41:38 GMT
Just to clarify for every ones information the Air Force Ran the actual broadcasts of AFRTS up until the mid 1970's so technically the stations were air force stations even though personal from the US Army, Navy Air Force and Marines were also assigned to those same stations. . . I think they were sent to Chinese Taipei from South Vietnam to be routed threw Taiwan to the next broadcaster in the AFRTS Chain where ever that maybe. Still doesn't explain why none of the episodes were ever listed though. The 2 Cushing movies weren't widely well recieved. The original series may have been even less well received on its first showing at a base (if indeed it was ever shown at a base at all). It may be, that after receiving them, AFRTS decided to not bother showing them. So ....... when the Nam bases emptied, (Nam being the prints' first destination, the prints there were just sent on elsewhere to another base, or, simply left behind where they were. The more I think about, and read about it, I just don't think these things were ever "broadcast".
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Post by Robert Lia on Feb 6, 2014 6:56:39 GMT
I will agree with you about the non listings. however I have discovered that the ARAMCO station in Saudi Arabia which broadcast the NTSC color tapes of the Jon Pertwee era in 1977 had a military affiliation with AFRTS. The station and currently the FM radio station are jointly managed by ARMCO and the US Military. In fact AFRTS news was even broadcast on the channel during the 1990-91 Persian Gulf war. That TV station has since been shut down though.
The research goes on though
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Post by Jon Preddle on Feb 6, 2014 9:08:12 GMT
However, unless Ian has seen some major bits of why/what for, paperwork, I don't see how he can make such claims that they were directly sent to Taiwan for a 2nd broadcast. It's unlikely he's seen any such paperwork (he's certainly not seen the films). He's making assumptions based on the little evidence there is on the films/reels/cans, or from what the owner of the films may have assumed and told him. Assumptions which, based on subsequent research, may prove to be very wrong.
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Post by johnforbes on Feb 6, 2014 10:46:32 GMT
However, unless Ian has seen some major bits of why/what for, paperwork, I don't see how he can make such claims that they were directly sent to Taiwan for a 2nd broadcast. It's unlikely he's seen any such paperwork (he's certainly not seen the films). He's making assumptions based on the little evidence there is on the films/reels/cans, or from what the owner of the films may have assumed and told him. Assumptions which, based on subsequent research, may prove to be very wrong. IL "making assumptions" was what I thought. An idea has just come to me though as a bolt out of the blue. So far, everyone has been "assuming" that these were for sight and sound broadcast. However, what if they were intended to be for sound broadcast only. This would also explain their non existent listing in any tv guides ao far (wrong media).
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Post by shellyharman67 on Feb 6, 2014 10:47:29 GMT
I WANT TO BELEIVE ADFRTS ran the show but the TV Guides for the bases all say otherwise Area 51 ?
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Post by scotttelfer on Feb 6, 2014 12:58:58 GMT
However, unless Ian has seen some major bits of why/what for, paperwork, I don't see how he can make such claims that they were directly sent to Taiwan for a 2nd broadcast. It's unlikely he's seen any such paperwork (he's certainly not seen the films). He's making assumptions based on the little evidence there is on the films/reels/cans, or from what the owner of the films may have assumed and told him. Assumptions which, based on subsequent research, may prove to be very wrong. All the episodes have a lead in attached confirming they were from AFN and the film cans confirm this (the original BBC cans have long since gone alongside all labeling confirming what episodes they were, that's why the collector wasn't able to identify them immediately). There are still plenty of details that remain a mystery, these are definitely new prints, they have no resemblance to any previously found prints (the AFN lead in being the obvious sign). Unfortunately though, until somebody can track down the paperwork we won't know what happened. I would suspect given the numbers it was a sale and that the records went missing at the BBC at some point (could explain the Mission to the Unknown problem I mentioned a while back if it was), hopefully we can get a better picture of things soon, although given that The Keys of Marinus is in there and it was one of the first stories to have its sales rights expire there really aren't many limitations on what could have been sent out.
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