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Post by robertsmith on Nov 13, 2013 3:34:27 GMT
I purchased the beatles bbc book and thought it was a good read. With that being said it would be nice to some of those bbc tv performances come to life (TOTP, 625 show) I must say their early lucky stars performances from 63 are by far the most important, especially for the biggest band in the world those should be considered top priority. Is there any way that Teddington kept their batch of tapes because most of the beatles surviving footage is from there. I also found some pretty good quality pictures of one of their lucky stars appearances and it makes me wonder if by any chance this show or others are out there. Here are the pictures www.flickr.com/photos/83920339@N04/7693194118/lightbox/ |
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Post by williammcgregor on Nov 13, 2013 10:15:41 GMT
Hi Robert,
I agree with your comments about The Beatles, if TV companies or whoever cannot pull out all the stops to find lost footage in their dusty archives for(arguably)the greatest or certainly the most successful band the world has ever seen, then which other group or solo artist would come anywhere near the Beatles in that respect?
The Beatles go beyond Rock Music they were a once in a lifetime, never to be repeated phenomenon...every music company in the world should be searching for lost footage all the time.
Also Apple if they're not already doing so should maybe offer cash incentives for lost footage
finally thanks for posting the lucky stars pictures, they're great!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 12:48:09 GMT
Apple trawled for footage in the 90's for Anthology. I reckon they have way way more than is known about ... it's just not in their mindset to let any of it out. Ray Langstone is a mine of knowledge regarding Apple ... he'd contribute loads to this thread.
Apparently, they filmed performances for TOTP, which were then inserted into the show ... it was considered too risky to get them in for regular performances. The one exception to this was in June 1966 when they appeared in the studio along with everyone else. they lip sync'd Paperback Writer & Rain. This performance existed until 1971 I believe when it was wiped. The only one of their filmed inserts prior to this to have in any way surfaced is a few seconds of Ticket To Ride, which crops up in Episode 1 of the Dr Who adventure, The Chase (1965). All the others seem no longer to exist.
The photos from the 1966 performance are actually from the rehearsal.
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Post by ashleywood on Nov 14, 2013 9:29:13 GMT
For the most part i think The Beatles appearances on TV post 1963 were pretty uninteresting with the exception of the missing 1965 TYLS where they mimed Eight Days A Week,Yes It Is and Ticket To Ride. Of most interest as Robert said would be those early shows late 1962 and early to mid 1963 when they sometimes played live or mimed the early singles. Though Apple almost certainly has more than it's prepared to let anyone see (why  ?) i don't think there's much chance for any recoveries from this early period unless a massive tape cache from ABC or the BBC or Granada miraculously appears. I've never understood the clamour for the 1966 TOTP appearance...we already have half a dozen examples of the band miming Paperback Writer and Rain. With reference to Kevin Howlett's book, it is well done but as a Beatle obsessive i've looked through it once and don't feel the need to look at it again. I do not understand why Kevin makes no reference to the tapes that have survived. Nearly every one of the Beatles BBC radio sessions has survived in some form but you'd never know that reading his book. For all the mythology,at the end of the day The Beatles were a pop group and it's all about the music. "it's only publishers who think they own it" as a certain Mr Lennon once said. I do not understand what Apple and the other copyright holders are waiting for. Fans of many other 50s and 60s bands are departing this life and many band's popularity is diminishing with the passing of time. It wont be long before there is no market for much of this stuff (beatles and stones aside) and then we'll never get to see it. What's the point of that ? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 9:56:01 GMT
There has been a culture of nay-saying at Apple for many years. Getting the 4 Directors to even look at proposals let alone agree to anything has probably been horrendous, so it's probably thought to be better not to bother trying. The only reason Anthology happened was because George needed the money (due to being shafted over Handmade Films/Denis O'Brien) ... and that was nearly 20 years ago.
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Post by Patrick Coles on Nov 14, 2013 11:01:38 GMT
The big problem re The Beatles and alot of other classic sixties groups & artists, of course, is that the songs footage is held by differing concerns...all with vested interests !
Dave Clark has 'Ready Steady Go !' on which they mimed to 'Twist & Shout', I'll Get You', 'She Loves You' and later 'It Won't Be Long', 'Can't Buy Me Love', 'You Can't Do That', 'I Feel Fine', 'She's A Woman', 'Baby's in Black' & 'Kansas City' at least...
the b/w promo film of 'Love Me Do' survives featuring John on harmonica and a surprisingly shorter haired very young Beatles look !
Granada did a show in the 80's (I think) called; 'The Early Beatles' that had them doing a number of songs ('I Want To Hold Your Hand' & 'This Boy' I think, in b/w John and George on 12 string guitars with them in front of a set of Pentax cameras etc) and an early 'Twist & Shout' with John wearing a polo neck sweater, & circa 1965 besides the 'live' Blackpool Night out' show where Paul sang 'Yesterday' solo, John forgot the lyrics HE wrote to 'Help !' (as he did on 'Ed Sullivan Show' too) and they did 'Ticket To Ride' plus there was a 'stars sing Lennon & McCartney' type show with Cilla Black (who sang 'It's For You'), Billy J. Kramer with The Dakotas (doing 'Bad To Me' - featuring Mick Green on lead guitar ) etc...on which The Beatles themselves mimed to 'Day Tripper' & 'We Can Work it Out'
The Anthology included the rare very early Cavern club performance of 'Some other Guy' plus alot of USA song performances ('Please Please Me', 'From Me To You', 'This Boy', 'All My Loving', 'I Want To Hold Your Hand', 'She Loves You', 'Twist & Shout', etc)...plus live in Washington 'I Saw Her Standing There', 'From Me To You' and Ringo singing 'I Wanna Be Your Man'....plus European (Swedish or German TV) live performances of 'She Loves You/I Want To Hold Your Hand' (medley) & George singing 'Roll Over Beethoven', the Prince of Wales theatre performance of Paul singing 'Till There Was You', the b/w mimed performance of 'Ticket To Ride' with them all sitting (BBC included that in their TOTP2 Beatles special, BBC also have an early live b/w 'She Loves You' in the collarless suits included in 'Sounds of The Sixties'), and there is the colour live performance of 'She Loves You' in front of a hysterical screaming audience
adding all the film performances of songs from the two films; 'A Hard Day's Night' & 'Help !' plus the Morecambe & Wise Show songs...the colour Shea Stadium concert songs ('I'm Down' etc), the complete colour Budokhan performances of 'Paperback Writer', 'If I Needed Someone' ("talked over" & interrupted in the 'Anthology' !) and the colour promo films ('Paperback Writer', 'Rain' 'Penny Lane', 'Strawberry Fields Forever',) plus the world TV 'All You Need is Love', 'I Am The Walrus' (from MMT), the colour promo of 'Hello Goodbye', the film of them recording 'Hey Bulldog', the 'David Frost Show' colour performance of 'Hey Jude', the colour film of them doing 'Revolution', the promo films for 'Something' & 'The Ballad of John & Yoko'...plus the rooftop concert ('Get Back', 'Don't Let Me Down', etc) at Apple office Saville Row, and the 'Let it Be' songs ('Let it Be', 'The Long And Winding Road' etc)...and the videos for 'Free As A Bird' & 'Real Love'
Theoretically it COULD be possible to assmble a pretty comprehensive Beatles song performances (if often mimed performances) collection in chronological order, from their entire career with only a few key songs possibly missing (are there any actual performances of 'A Hard Day's Night', 'Lady Madonna', 'Come Together' etc ?) - which when you consider after 1966 they no longer toured or did any TV show performances bar maybe 'The David Frost Show' is remarkable
IF Apple, BBC, ITV, Dave Clark, etc all put their respective footage together a superb and important DVD could be put together....
but that's all in a 'perfect world' of course...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 11:22:24 GMT
The one exception to this was in June 1966 when they appeared in the studio along with everyone else. they lip sync'd Paperback Writer & Rain. This performance existed until 1971 I believe when it was wiped. According to a Keith Badman article in Record Collector (?) a few years back, he'd tracked the whereabouts of a print of this edition up to as recently as the '90s (at which point it was sold on to a private collector and has since vanished from view). He claimed the print was originally owned by a retired ex-BBC engineer living in Cornwall. I know Keith's research is generally accurate and so - based on this - I would imagine the recording still exists, current whereabouts unknown. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 11:35:40 GMT
That, Laurence, is excellent news. I'd heard it might be in a private collection in the states, but I wasn't sure how it might have ended up there. I refuse to believe that neither EMI, nor NEMS would not have kept copies of every TV performance ... if only as souvenirs in much the same way that Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones did. But keeping is one thing ... letting it out into the public domain is another seemingly. As is said of other things, it's out there somewhere, it's just a matter of finding out where.
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Post by Sal Mohammed on Nov 14, 2013 11:55:51 GMT
I've been watching a lot of historical programmes about 1963 MLK, JFK etc. as 50 years have passed. I bet TV companies in the US are already planning something with regards to the Beatles invasion of 1964. It'll be nice to have the complete Washington concert from 1964. Was this filmed, videotaped or both? In terms of picture quality a Blu-ray of Shea Stadium wouldn't go a miss. The Anthology footage looked stunning compared to washed out bootlegs. Worth reading the article below, it looks like a lot of work has already been carried out by apple on material they hold. www.examiner.com/article/beatles-archivist-who-has-seen-it-all-gets-64-d-c-show-back-to-the-big-screenThe Rolling Stones released three Blu-rays in quick succession, it's as if they realise their original fan base are getting on a bit so best to release them while they're still alive. |
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Post by ashleywood on Nov 14, 2013 12:52:16 GMT
The big problem re The Beatles and alot of other classic sixties groups & artists, of course, is that the songs footage is held by differing concerns...all with vested interests ! the b/w promo film of 'Love Me Do' survives featuring John on harmonica and a surprisingly shorter haired very young Beatles look ! ;'She Loves You' in the collarless suits included in 'Sounds of The Sixties'), Those are both from the BBC "The Mersey Sound" documentary from 1963. Sad but true we are more likely to see a full Beatle reunion tour before CrApple sorts it's "legacy" policy out. I suspect that has less to do with Jeff Jones and more to do with Yoko,Paul,Olivia and Ringo. If one of them vetoes something it's out of the running. Luckily there's probably around 30 to 100 hours of Beatle footage "in circulation" so Apple sorting it out is pretty much irrelevant. It's entirely up to them and "the board" if they want to keep it that way. I just can't see the point in keeping the footage locked away until it can only be looked at in 100 years time by a couple of twatty historians with little or no musical interest. |
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Post by SydV on Nov 14, 2013 12:56:53 GMT
the b/w promo film of 'Love Me Do' survives featuring John on harmonica and a surprisingly shorter haired very young Beatles look ! That's from a programme called "The Mersey Sound", they shot it in Southport at the end of August 1963. The earliest surviving TV studio footage of The Beatles is from a few weeks earlier, doing "Twist and Shout" on 'Scene at 6:30', but there's nothing else before that other than private cine film and the footage shot by Granada in the Cavern. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 13:30:39 GMT
It'll be nice to have the complete Washington concert from 1964. Was this filmed, videotaped or both? In terms of picture quality a Blu-ray of Shea Stadium wouldn't go a miss. The Anthology footage looked stunning compared to washed out bootlegs. Worth reading the article below, it looks like a lot of work has already been carried out by apple on material they hold. www.examiner.com/article/beatles-archivist-who-has-seen-it-all-gets-64-d-c-show-back-to-the-big-screenThe Rolling Stones released three Blu-rays in quick succession, it's as if they realise their original fan base are getting on a bit so best to release them while they're still alive. Yes, I wish that Apple would do the same with Beatles material! The Washington concert was videotaped. It's been restored and looks great. The whole thing was streamed online a while back, for some strange reason, but no DVD was forthcoming. That's Apple for you though. I know it's all been said before but certain basic DVD sets that are offered of even the humblest of bands are continually denied The Beatles. Shea Stadium is one, a video greatest hits is another, a collection of all their promo videos and films is another. The possibilities are endless. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 15:02:53 GMT
And people wonder why there's a thriving bootleg, sorry, collectibles' market ...
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Post by robertsmith on Nov 14, 2013 22:36:41 GMT
Quick note those pictures I posted are from a flickr account and are not mine. Regarding the Scene at 630 with the twist and shout clip, wasn't she loves you performed as well and if it was is it out there? Also I read that in march 63 the beatles appeared on a news show and had a lucky stars clip aired which means it was taped, but when the clearout happened with ABC was it trashed then?
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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 14, 2013 23:17:16 GMT
The situation is a bit like Allen Klein not releasing the Cameo Parkway back catalogue & other oldies on CD for years, even when there was a market for them.
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?) i don't think there's much chance for any recoveries from this early period unless a massive tape cache from ABC or the BBC or Granada miraculously appears. I've never understood the clamour for the 1966 TOTP appearance...we already have half a dozen examples of the band miming Paperback Writer and Rain.
