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Post by Simon Smith on Nov 10, 2013 5:12:12 GMT
It says that one of the episodes found was Daleks Master Plan 7. Unless that's simply a typo, then it's a load of bollocks. According to Jon Preddle, in another thread, it is possible a 16mm telerecording was made during broadcast. Sorry, but I would be EXTREMELY surprised if that was even remotely the case. Telerecordings were not "just done". It was an expensive, complex way of recording, that was usually done SOLELY for overseas sales. No show was ever just telerecorded as the default position. So, first someone would look over the shows that were being broadcast, then they would deice if they felt it had sales potential, and then they would need to sign forms. It's not as though Jon Preddle hasn't been mistaken before. If a telerecording was made as a viewing print for some reason(and that is an enormous "if"), then maybe it somehow didn't get junked. But there is no evidence that one was(nor any reason to suspect it). Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love it if there was a print of FOS out there, but realistically this is the one episode that we will never find. :-( And what exact evidence is there that a 16mm telerecording of it was made?
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Post by Neil Lambess on Nov 10, 2013 8:38:30 GMT
According to Jon Preddle, in another thread, it is possible a 16mm telerecording was made during broadcast. Sorry, but I would be EXTREMELY surprised if that was even remotely the case. Telerecordings were not "just done". It was an expensive, complex way of recording, that was usually done SOLELY for overseas sales. No show was ever just telerecorded as the default position. So, first someone would look over the shows that were being broadcast, then they would deice if they felt it had sales potential, and then they would need to sign forms. It's not as though Jon Preddle hasn't been mistaken before. If a telerecording was made as a viewing print for some reason(and that is an enormous "if"), then maybe it somehow didn't get junked. But there is no evidence that one was(nor any reason to suspect it). Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love it if there was a print of FOS out there, but realistically this is the one episode that we will never find. :-( And what exact evidence is there that a 16mm telerecording of it was made? Jon has apparently only said "theres a possibility" according to the original poster. (its a bit like shrodingers cat really ..... at the moment theres no paperwork saying that a 16mm print was struck ....but its always possible some may turn up !) from memory (as ive recently said on the DMP orphan thread) I can recall an interview with Douglas Camfield (in either DWM or DWB ) where he said that Feast of Steven was "so bad " that he took it from the BBC and gave it to the Hartnells......... (which is probably the source of the rumour that FOS was in the Hartnell familys hands came from ) (they only had footage of Dalek invasion ) Without the original article i read in front of me .... i suspect that Camfield was just spinning a good yarn (but thats just conjecture on my part ) , and if my memory of the article is correct ,then what Camfield was remembering raises other questions and possibilities.... A) If Camfield did Take Feast of Steven out of the BBC and give it to somebody , he would be unlikley to take the master video tape. ( issues of theft and cost of the reusable tape spring immediatly to mind ) B) If Camfield did give FOS to somebody , then it would make more sense for him to give a 16mm film print that could easily be screened at home. and which coud be run off for that purpose , (pure conjecture yes, but it does have some logic to it) C) If the Hartnells were given clips of Dalek Invasion By Camfield , then why that story ? (unlike DMP Camfield didnt direct it , and presumably couldnt just take it out of the BBC...or could he ? ......for all we know he gave Billy a copy of FOS in his dressing room and Hartnell hid it in a cupboard at television centre instead of taking it home ..... ) D) Did Camfield give a print of FOS to somebody else? (could Camfield (as director) have pulled it before the viewing prints were sent to Australia ? and the paperwork then showed no 16mm print of FOS was sent there ? if My memory is correct , and the interview is the source of the FOS to the Hartnells rumour. im probably inclined to think that it was a "yarn " well told to an interviewer , but again all the other possibilities ive suggested , and probably several dozen more cant be ruled out , however unlikley they may be......
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Post by Neil Lambess on Nov 10, 2013 8:41:44 GMT
....... why do i have this sinking feeling that the above conjecture will be repeated as fact withing 24 hours?
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 10, 2013 8:46:31 GMT
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Post by Simon Smith on Nov 10, 2013 8:51:24 GMT
Ian Levine stated that when he looked over all the BBC paperwork in 1978, it had stated that the BBC had at one time or another had film prints of all 60's Who '''except The Feast of Steven'''. The BBC themselves never even retained a film print. Pamela Nash later confirmed that this was the one episode that was never made available for foreign purchase(The other eleven episodes of DMP as well as MTTU WERE telerecorded, and offered for sales, but were never bought). The paperwork offering DMP as an ELEVEN-part story may very well still remain. So, it was never offered for sale, there is no evidence of the BBC ever having held a print(even temporarily before they decided NOT to offer it for sale), there is no evidence that it ever was telerecorded. It was a lighthearted standalone comedy episode that had nothing whatsoever to do with the far bleaker eleven episodes that surrounded it. And the story about Hartnell showing a print at home to his family was shown(several years ago) to actually be referring to an episode of Dalek Invasion of Earth.
What do we actually have? The ''possibility'' that it ''may'' have been telerecorded. By the same token The Quatermass Experiment episodes 3-6 may have been telerecorded, and just because there's no evidence that they ever were doesn't mean they weren't! Just like Schrodinger's Cat! However, that is a flawed concept. With Schrodinger's Cat we simply don't know enough about the way subatomic particles function, and the cat MAY be either dead or alive. With Feast of Steven we KNOW it would only have been telerecorded had Pamela Nash signed the proper paperwork because she felt it was possible to sell it abroad. Which she didn't.
And you only need to read Timelink's UNIT Dating section to see that what Jon Preddle says is possible isn't really worth taking too seriously.
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Post by markandresen on Nov 10, 2013 10:26:16 GMT
Ian Levine stated that when he looked over all the BBC paperwork in 1978, it had stated that the BBC had at one time or another had film prints of all 60's Who '''except The Feast of Steven'''. The BBC themselves never even retained a film print. Pamela Nash later confirmed that this was the one episode that was never made available for foreign purchase(The other eleven episodes of DMP as well as MTTU WERE telerecorded, and offered for sales, but were never bought). The paperwork offering DMP as an ELEVEN-part story may very well still remain. So, it was never offered for sale, there is no evidence of the BBC ever having held a print(even temporarily before they decided NOT to offer it for sale), there is no evidence that it ever was telerecorded. It was a lighthearted standalone comedy episode that had nothing whatsoever to do with the far bleaker eleven episodes that surrounded it. And the story about Hartnell showing a print at home to his family was shown(several years ago) to actually be referring to an episode of Dalek Invasion of Earth. What do we actually have? The ''possibility'' that it ''may'' have been telerecorded. By the same token The Quatermass Experiment episodes 3-6 may have been telerecorded, and just because there's no evidence that they ever were doesn't mean they weren't! Just like Schrodinger's Cat! However, that is a flawed concept. With Schrodinger's Cat we simply don't know enough about the way subatomic particles function, and the cat MAY be either dead or alive. With Feast of Steven we KNOW it would only have been telerecorded had Pamela Nash signed the proper paperwork because she felt it was possible to sell it abroad. Which she didn't. And you only need to read Timelink's UNIT Dating section to see that what Jon Preddle says is possible isn't really worth taking too seriously. Thank you, Simon. As an ex-archival researcher, I'm one of those who's never doubted that more missing eps are likely to be released; but FOS has never come into the equation for the reasons you cite. Can't understand, therefore, why it's gained such traction on so many forums when it's clearly the least likely candidate.
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Post by richardwoods on Nov 10, 2013 12:38:02 GMT
Perhaps it's precisely because it is the least likely episode, if it can be found then anything is possible.
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Post by Peter Ledwith on Nov 10, 2013 14:47:49 GMT
This is one of the most ridiculous aspects of the omnirumour.
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Nov 10, 2013 14:55:08 GMT
This is one of the most ridiculous aspects of the omnirumour. Does it have some aspects that aren't ridiculous?
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Post by richardwoods on Nov 10, 2013 15:02:49 GMT
Wish fulfilment at it's most obvious unfortunately.
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Post by Peter Ledwith on Nov 10, 2013 16:32:52 GMT
Anythings possible.
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Post by brianfretwell on Nov 10, 2013 16:36:05 GMT
Ian Levine stated that when he looked over all the BBC paperwork in 1978, it had stated that the BBC had at one time or another had film prints of all 60's Who '''except The Feast of Steven'''. The BBC themselves never even retained a film print. Pamela Nash later confirmed that this was the one episode that was never made available for foreign purchase(The other eleven episodes of DMP as well as MTTU WERE telerecorded, and offered for sales, but were never bought). But of course the pedantic minds of some fans clutching at straws read that to mean that though there was no print, it not mean that a negative was never made - and spread hope from that false premise.
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Nov 10, 2013 16:46:26 GMT
Of course, the perverse fans like me who know "Feast Of Steven" is a completely pointless episode to (a) look for and (b) watch even if it were recovered, well that just makes us want to see it more. We're the ones who look for copies of "Squeeze" by the Velvet Underground, or who insist that owning a copy of "Splitting Heirs" on DVD is essential to complete the Monty Python uber-collection...
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Post by John Wall on Nov 10, 2013 16:47:43 GMT
I think that at least one of the recently recovered Sky at Nights was believed to have not been telerecorded. There is a very remote possibility that Feast of Stephen was telerecorded, but I wouldn't bet a brass farthing on it !
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Post by Stephen Neve on Nov 10, 2013 17:11:31 GMT
Quite clearly partially fiction. Clearly though, these bizarre stories of stories beginning with M being restored, of release schedules, etc., is fiction. They are not fiction at all. Auntie however insists now on playing games and keep moving the goalposts. Auntie is leaking like a sieve and is cross and wants to stem the leak.
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