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Post by davemachin on Feb 13, 2010 16:38:00 GMT
Colin's original comment was, "I get the impression that there are still large areas of the BBC archives that remain unchecked." My point remains the same. That isn't true. I can't speak about technical, engineering or R&D units, they do collect junk tape and cans over the years and may find stuff yet c I see what you mean Chris! I was assuming you were replying to my own post as your posting came straight after it. I was talking about other areas of the BBC itself that may hold further items that are missing (not huge quantities though). Just as Laurence says though there are a lot of things reported as fact in the field of missing tv and it is only a lot later that it's discovered that the 'facts' are not facts after all. It's hard to get at the truth sometimes. Probably Colin's original posting was really referring to the BBC as a whole body (I read it to mean that anyway, was it, Colin?) rather than just the archive specifically. Those of us outside of the company itself see it as a huge mass and probably don't distinguish one department from another, although it would make things more clear if we did! Anyway I think that most of us are really expressing the view that the BBC (in one department or other) still houses individual missing items somewhere or other that they don't know about. Fair enough comment? Dave
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Post by Colin Anderton on Feb 14, 2010 14:37:26 GMT
Dave, I was really referring to the archive specifically - just living in hope!
Colin.
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Post by John Wall on Feb 14, 2010 19:28:21 GMT
I'm in the process of copying my VHS collection onto DVD and I've found a few things that I didn't know I had. They'd been recorded on the end of a tape and not added to the label.
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Post by Robert Manners on Mar 10, 2010 2:02:55 GMT
<Out Of The Unknown:The Little Black Bag footage from 2in PAL Quad Master(improperly erased ensured this material's survival)>
Does anyone know why this was on the tape as I recall Steve Roberts saying it was not the original TX master simple been re-used so it must have been from another source!
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Post by John W King on Mar 10, 2010 8:47:17 GMT
As with Mr Wall above - I'm also in the process of copying my VHS collection onto DVD and I've found a few things that I didn't know I had. They'd been recorded on the end of a tape and not added to the label. When this first happened I was surprised. Now I'm checking my tapes all the way through to ensure I don't lose anything interesting! Sadly when I moved in 2001 I had to dump my old Video 2000 tapes without fully checking I'd copied them. Luckily I'd transferred the Five Faces of Doctor Who (the reason I first invested in a video recorder). I hear people on this site saying don't throw out your old tapes - sorry but some of us don't have the capacity to physically store "everything". I guess the BBC must have been in this position in the 1970's - hence the purge. And although, like most on this site, I mourn the loss of many programmes I can understand why it happened. And just as I do not have the time to go through allme tapes from start to finish I rather suspect the BBC do not have the resources to do the same with their tapes. So, las, there may be treasures stuck on the end of tapes or mis-labelled that are likely to be overlooked either forever or certainly a long, long time.
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Post by John Wall on Mar 10, 2010 9:01:52 GMT
As with Mr Wall above - I'm also in the process of copying my VHS collection onto DVD and I've found a few things that I didn't know I had. They'd been recorded on the end of a tape and not added to the label. When this first happened I was surprised. Now I'm checking my tapes all the way through to ensure I don't lose anything interesting! Sadly when I moved in 2001 I had to dump my old Video 2000 tapes without fully checking I'd copied them. Luckily I'd transferred the Five Faces of Doctor Who (the reason I first invested in a video recorder). I hear people on this site saying don't throw out your old tapes - sorry but some of us don't have the capacity to physically store "everything". I guess the BBC must have been in this position in the 1970's - hence the purge. And although, like most on this site, I mourn the loss of many programmes I can understand why it happened. And just as I do not have the time to go through allme tapes from start to finish I rather suspect the BBC do not have the resources to do the same with their tapes. So, las, there may be treasures stuck on the end of tapes or mis-labelled that are likely to be overlooked either forever or certainly a long, long time. I've gained quite a few yards/metres of shelf space by converting VHS videos to DVDs. It also makes the material more accessible as the DVD has a menu which means that you don't have to fast forward through the tape to get to something.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2010 12:25:18 GMT
That's fine until the discs start failing, John! It's a hassle and space swallowing but I keep all my old tapes and just look on any DVD transfers I make as viewing copies. That way there is always a back-up just in case though... Seriously though (and even though this subject has been covered more times in the past than I care to mention), it isn't just the fact of the BBC wiping the tapes to save space that is the issue. It's also (possibly more so) that the quantity that WAS kept was not at all selected properly or at all a lot of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2010 13:11:44 GMT
Seriously though (and even though this subject has been covered more times in the past than I care to mention), it isn't just the fact of the BBC wiping the tapes to save space that is the issue. It's also (possibly more so) that the quantity that WAS kept was not at all selected properly or at all a lot of the time. Which brings up the Quality issue. For instance, most of what was kept of Patrick Troughton's tenure as Doctor Who is widely regarded as being his weaker adventures. "The Dominators", "The Krotons" and "The Seeds of Death" are renowned for being amongst the worst of his era, yet they were kept whilst classics such as "Evil Of The Daleks", "The Macra Terror" and "Fury From The Deep" were massacred. Plus the weaker ones all date from his final season. They didn't bother to retain any complete adventures from his first two seasons! Therefore it meant for many years, we got a poor lopsided view of Troughton's era. "The Space Pirates" episode 2 was retained... it must be the most tedious, boring waste of film of all. Probably the worst episode. So there was no real rhyme nor reason behind what was kept.
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Post by Ash Stewart on Mar 10, 2010 15:50:19 GMT
The BBC didn't keep most of the complete Troughtons that exist; they kept only two of them.
Three later came back from the BFI, and later Tomb from Hong Kong.
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Post by Greg H on Mar 10, 2010 15:55:23 GMT
That's fine until the discs start failing, John! It's a hassle and space swallowing but I keep all my old tapes and just look on any DVD transfers I make as viewing copies. That way there is always a back-up just in case though... Seriously though (and even though this subject has been covered more times in the past than I care to mention), it isn't just the fact of the BBC wiping the tapes to save space that is the issue. It's also (possibly more so) that the quantity that WAS kept was not at all selected properly or at all a lot of the time. Yep, im sure ive said it here before and i'll probably say it again, if youve got anything that isnt freely available on DVD or in general circulation then keep the originals and please dont regard DVDr as a permanent storage solution!! And in agreement with Laurence here, the selection proccess for archive retention was certainly baffling to say the least...... but im not going to harp on about it.
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Post by Robert Manners on Mar 11, 2010 18:07:26 GMT
That's fine until the discs start failing, John! It's a hassle and space swallowing but I keep all my old tapes and just look on any DVD transfers I make as viewing copies. I agree a tape lasts longer than a dye burn DVD-R +R
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Post by Tim Disney on Mar 12, 2010 12:19:57 GMT
The Troughton situation has always bugged me and without wishing to turn this thread into a Who fest, I just wanted to highly recommend the Nothing at the End of the Lane Issues 1 & 2 Omnibus edition for those interested in Doctor Who wipings. Very detailed and interesting reading. www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/nothing-at-the-end-of-the-lane-omnibus/3433595Get a blow by blow account of when the Mr Scotch met Mr Magneto. To think that The Myth Makers and The War Machines still existed on VT until 1974!
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Post by Ash Stewart on Mar 12, 2010 14:13:03 GMT
The Troughton situation has always bugged me and without wishing to turn this thread into a Who fest, I just wanted to highly recommend the Nothing at the End of the Lane Issues 1 & 2 Omnibus edition for those interested in Doctor Who wipings. Very detailed and interesting reading. www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/nothing-at-the-end-of-the-lane-omnibus/3433595Get a blow by blow account of when the Mr Scotch met Mr Magneto. To think that The Myth Makers and The War Machines still existed on VT until 1974! And Fury; IIRC, that was the very last B&W story to be wiped.
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Post by LanceM on Mar 13, 2010 2:33:50 GMT
Such depressing reading,also that Galaxy 4 existed till 1977!
As was mentioned in the Missing Years Documentary by Frazer Hines and Deborah Watling.Realy like this Documentary as well,very good edits as well as use of existing archival footage.
Cheers,Lance.
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Post by johnstewart on Mar 13, 2010 20:03:19 GMT
The BBC didn't keep most of the complete Troughtons that exist; they kept only two of them. Three later came back from the BFI, and later Tomb from Hong Kong. Just out of interest what were the 2? Always had the impression what was left was mainly those transmitted from 35mm B+W T/Rs.
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