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Post by Dave Hall on Aug 16, 2008 15:07:57 GMT
I'm sorry I seem to have upset you ade42, no intention at all, I saw the listing, and posted for others to see/judge, as they are far more experienced people than me, I thought I'd make a contribution, after hanging round here for years, never joining, just reading.
I live in a small village in Derbyshire, miles away from Scotland, the listing is nothing to do with me.
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Post by Dave Hall on Aug 16, 2008 15:20:57 GMT
look who started this... who has the LEAST amount of posts here etc .. etc.. do i have to spell it out... Just because i've made a small number of posts I'm Guilty am I? I hope your never on a Jury anywhere You sure know how to win friends I know a small number of people on here, that are members of a another forum that could vouch for me, but why should I. All I was doing was contributing or so i thought
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Post by John Andersen on Aug 16, 2008 15:51:59 GMT
If anyone is interested, not that it means much, but i am going to bid on these and if there is anything on them the RT mob will be the first to know. Im not going to go crazy price wise as have been caught out like that before (not that i minded, but its the principle) Regards Col Do you actually have that type of player to play those tapes?
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Post by Koen Br on Aug 16, 2008 16:00:51 GMT
Wierdly enough.. in about 1985-6 i REALLY wanted a Video recorder but my parents never bought one (far too expencive) so i spent a bit of time trying to record the "video signal" to open reel tape.. it worked.. kind of.. a snowy picture that came and went that was hardly recognisable. this tape played for about 4 years.. i would "amaze" ppl with the simple trick.. Now that's interesting! How do you turn a quarter inch tape audio recorder into a video machine? Never heard of this before, but sounds like fun. Do tell!
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Post by John Andersen on Aug 16, 2008 16:04:31 GMT
Well the guy has now ended the listing due to many enquires, and promises to look at the tapes and relist with screenshots, hopefully it'll put us out of our misery, one way or another. For my pennies worth, I think he might be genuine, probably just aquired the tapes somewhere along the lines over the years, and did'nt realise the interest that could result from the title. This looks very fishy. How is he supposed to verify when he apparently doesn't have a player to view them? He was not sure what exact player that was needed in his advertisement. Would he go to the expense of acquiring a machine or taking the old tapes to a place and pay money just to verify what is on them? I hope this is something nice, but I have got a strange feeling about this.
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Post by Richard Bignell on Aug 16, 2008 17:37:16 GMT
Now that's interesting! How do you turn a quarter inch tape audio recorder into a video machine? Never heard of this before, but sounds like fun. Do tell! That's essentially what the old PXL-2000 toy video camera from Fisher Price did, except that used standard cassette tapes. However, in order to record its low-grade b/w pictures a C90 cassette (one side only) could only store 11 minutes worth of image, as it had to run so quickly to capture the bandwidth! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PXL-2000Richard
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Post by Andy Smith on Aug 16, 2008 19:20:02 GMT
How cynical is Ade42,i quite understand that he has been stung quite a few times,but there is a possibility that the seller is genuine.I don't think there is any need for a personal attack on the person who posted the topic,i think the moderators would be within their rights to ban him.Has he heard of the term "don't shoot the messenger".
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Post by Peter Elliott on Aug 16, 2008 19:25:37 GMT
Now that's interesting! How do you turn a quarter inch tape audio recorder into a video machine? Never heard of this before, but sounds like fun. Do tell! That's essentially what the old PXL-2000 toy video camera from Fisher Price did, except that used standard cassette tapes. However, in order to record its low-grade b/w pictures a C90 cassette (one side only) could only store 11 minutes worth of image, as it had to run so quickly to capture the bandwidth! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PXL-2000Richard Fascinating! Had never heard of this before. During the 1980s I did wonder if it was possible to record video on cassette tape and it seems I was right. Unfortunately though as playbacks of my recordings from the 80s reveal, cassette tape is not the most durable medium, so I shudder to think what the quality of any video playback would be like now.
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Post by Bobby Clark (synthpopalooza) on Aug 16, 2008 19:56:10 GMT
One thing I should mention (and this may have been touched on earlier) is that in New Zealand, Troughton episodes were shown up until about 1973 when they went over to Pertwees, so it is possible (albeit unlikely) that one of these ended up on an old-style videotape. But then that would beg the question of how the tape ended up in the UK, 180 degrees on the other side of the world.
It's possible, but this feels like a hoax windup. I will believe it when more information comes to light. However, if the person running the auction disappears, then it most definitely is a hoax.
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Post by Ash Stewart on Aug 16, 2008 20:14:59 GMT
Really, there's three possible options:
1 - the seller is hoaxing. 2 - the seller is selling these tapes in good faith having acquired them via legitimate means, and a prior owner wrote the titles on as a hoax/joke. 3 - the seller is selling these tapes in good faith having acquired them via legitimate means and they have on them exactly what they say.
Personally, I think option 2 is the most likely.
I can't help but recall the time when someone listed a couple of DW film reels with labels on purporting to be missing episodes. It turned out he'd bought them as part of a job lot, put them on eBay without checking the films and was quite genuine - he examined the films on request, and found they were something else. It later transpired that the film cans had been labelled by a fan as a joke, and had been sold by his parents after he'd moved out of home.
Whereas in that case it was very easy to examine the film, here it's rather trickier to view a tape on an obsolete format. I'm sure the vast majority of people wouldn't have a clue where to get hold of one.
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Post by retro on Aug 16, 2008 20:20:55 GMT
Firstly, I'd like to say sorry for not being active here for a long time. I'm glad that a topic such as this has brought me back It is a shame that this auction got noticed, I was hoping that noone would be interested in N1500 tapes although I knew it was unlikely that I'd be the only one to notice the label! I intended to bid on these as I have the technology to play them (it may take more than just having a working machine, as I'll explain in a minute). If they contained what we believe, they would of course be returned to the BBC. I'd like to address some issues raised: 1. For those that don't know, these are Philips VCR format cassettes. They came out with the N1500 VCR in 1972, but in 1977 they released a long play format called VCR-LP and the N1700 VCR. This used the same tapes but tapes recorded on an N1500 cannot be played on an N1700, and vice versa. This is what he meant by he does not know which format they are - they could contain VCR or VCR-LP recordings!! 2. For those asking how he'll confirm the contents, did you check his replies to questions? He mentioned having a loft full of equipment, including N1500 and N1700 machines. Also, there are duplication services which he could use. It isn't impossible. 3. You could look at it two ways. Either the seller is genuine, and has no idea what is on the tapes (and they may or may not have had The Macra Terror at one point, and may still do), or the seller wrote that on the tape in order to get money for it. If you did that, though, wouldn't you put Doctor Who in the title or description somewhere? Another tape actually said Doctor Who. Also, if you don't know Doctor Who, The Macra Terror might be some odd school documentary or an episode of Horizon!! 4. eBay has rules against selling copyrighted material. No matter how exciting it may be to find a lost episode, it is still copyrighted and they could remove an auction selling such material. The seller was merely selling these as blank tapes. I would hope that the people who asked him questions aren't members here, as I was quite appauled at the behaviour of some. The seller clearly states they are sold as blanks, they may or may not contain material but they aren't being sold for it. People demanding the seller tell them what is on the tapes, or to find out (which may cost him a fair amount) are being very rude and unreasonable. If you want to find out what is on blank tapes, take a risk and bid! As to what I said about the restoration.... these tapes are over 30 years old and have probably been stored in less than ideal conditions. Very often, the tape degenerates. When this happens, you find either the oxide shedding all over the insides of the VCR (a very costly thing to happen!), or sometimes the tape has already stuck to itself and trying to play it or unstick it even would damage the tape. I have seen tapes in these conditions many times. As to the age, yes it is a machine that came out a few years after the episode was first broadcast. People instantly criticize for that. But what about repeats? Can anyone categorically state when this episode was repeated on British TV, if at all? Actually, I'd be very interested to know which missing episodes WERE repeated in the 70s, as they could exist as off-air recordings on cassettes! I am still hopeful about this. I just hope that there won't be some stupid bidding war. I have the technology to play this material, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I will be able to acquire it. I'm not looking to make a fast buck out of it (I don't expect a profit at all, quite the opposite), I'm not looking to stash this away never to be seen. I just want to confirm the contents and get it back to the BBC so the material can be properly preserved and enjoyed. Yes, we should be wary of such allegations, as there have been so many timewasters in the past. However, at the moment, this person hasn't really stepped forward claiming to have a lost episode, merely a blank cassette with something written on it. I think we need to keep an open mind and not jump down people's throats trying to expose them as an impostor!
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Post by Ash Stewart on Aug 16, 2008 22:12:59 GMT
Macra Terror was never repeated on UK TV. There were very few repeats of B&W Dr Who for many years:
1963 - repeat of the first episode, An Uneartly Child. 1968 - repeat of Evil of the Daleks 1-7. 1981 (ish...) - repeat of An Unearthly Child 1-4, and The Krotons 1-4.
Not a single B&W episode was repeated in the 70s...!
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Post by retro on Aug 16, 2008 22:55:51 GMT
Wow, that's very interesting, thanks!
That's very sad, but then it was clear that those episodes weren't valued by the BBC in the 70s anyway. Perhaps they had limited repeat allowances anyway?
So, thinking about this tape, what is the likelihood of The Macra Terror getting on there? I guess, as the seller says he has old reel VTRs, it is possible someone could have recorded it on video tape on first transmission, then made a backup in the 70s with an N1500. I guess that's plausible. How else could it have got on there? Copied within the BBC before the tapes were deleted?
Incidentally, have any of the original master tapes been found? Do we know what exactly was recorded over any of them?
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Post by Jon Preddle on Aug 16, 2008 23:59:55 GMT
One thing I should mention (and this may have been touched on earlier) is that in New Zealand, Troughton episodes were shown up until about 1973 when they went over to Pertwees, Um, not quite. The last Troughton to screen here, The Wheel in Space, was in September 1971. Jon
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Post by Neil Lambess on Aug 17, 2008 3:37:35 GMT
yep that's the way.. blind belif that they are real... so how long have you been searching for missing progs? .. er.....about 20 years in my case and you can see what i found on the LOST IN TIME box set...... and lets not forget that what i found WAS advertised on the internet, but nobody noticed at all (admittedly it was listed for sale from a fictitious government's film archive but it was for real)....... and lets face it , if somebody found that web page today and put it on here , it would clearly be labeled a hoax...... anyway I agree with most of what you say...part of me also thinks that this is probably a hoax and a wind up, but i can also see a slim but perfectly feasible way for the two Macra eps i saw in NZ to make there way back to the UK on video tape. as for them been the wrong tapes for a 1967 episode to be on ....well has anybody on this forum heard of format shifting?...i have stuff that screened on NZ TV in 1980 on DVD via Beta max and VHS dubs.... just out of interest and to help put my mind to rest that this isn't a hoax.......does anybody here have an episode guide to either "learn and read" or "stop , look , listen " and who can tell me if they ever had segments featuring Ice Sculptures in Japan (with a thunderbird 2 carved out of ice) followed by speedboats? anyway probably a hoax unless it isn't !
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