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Post by Richard Bignell on Jul 7, 2023 10:36:38 GMT
Yes even white right wingers finding everything under the sun to be offended by, even things that have been around for centuries! It was a show that offended at the time and has no place even for discussion in 2023. What episodes survive should be buried and forgotten. Why anyone would want to dig them up is beyond me. Thankfully more people around now who know nothing of it, and only a minority recall it as the generations from less enlightened times fade away. Are you determined to ruin this thread as well, Andy? |
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Post by andyparting on Jul 7, 2023 11:50:59 GMT
It was a show that offended at the time and has no place even for discussion in 2023. What episodes survive should be buried and forgotten. Why anyone would want to dig them up is beyond me. Thankfully more people around now who know nothing of it, and only a minority recall it as the generations from less enlightened times fade away. Are you determined to ruin this thread as well, Andy? It's ruined when freedom-of-speech comments are being removed. If one can't express their opinion that this show is as wrong in 2023 as it was in 1963, then this forum is as sorry a state of affairs as the B&WMS itself. |
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Post by George D on Jul 7, 2023 13:44:59 GMT
No one has the right to say whatever they want in someone else's house. If you still believe differently. please let me know your address and with my "freedom of speech" I'll play some 19th century music on crackling 78rpm record recordings. that will give you an amazing experience  |
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Post by andyparting on Jul 7, 2023 14:26:46 GMT
No one has the right to say whatever they want in someone else's house. If you still believe differently. please let me know your address and with my "freedom of speech" I'll play some 19th century music on crackling 78rpm record recordings. that will give you an amazing experience This is not someone else's house, this is a forum. It's an absolutely pointless thread, this one. It's been established that the musical Daleks clip is missing, no-one has any photo record of it. No-one can add anything to the original query. Job done. Now can we please lock this thread so that the TB&WMS subject can be re-buried. Lock the thread and leave it, just like the show has thankfully been. |
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Post by John Wall on Jul 7, 2023 15:50:46 GMT
I always remember that there’s an off switch.
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Post by Patrick Coles on Jul 7, 2023 21:33:08 GMT
very true John but we must remember - orders are orders !!!!
and it looks like we have been ordered !
so lets carry on chatting folks....
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Post by Pete Morris on Jul 8, 2023 0:07:28 GMT
It's an absolutely pointless thread, this one.
If you think so then please stop posting in it.
Some of us may want to continue discussing it. There may be photos somewhere. Maybe a copy of the episode will be discovered. Maybe someone has an off-air audio. Let's not close it yet.
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Post by garygraham on Jul 8, 2023 7:18:38 GMT
Yes even white right wingers finding everything under the sun to be offended by, even things that have been around for centuries! It was a show that offended at the time and has no place even for discussion in 2023. What episodes survive should be buried and forgotten. Why anyone would want to dig them up is beyond me. Thankfully more people around now who know nothing of it, and only a minority recall it as the generations from less enlightened times fade away. I'd be interested to know what age you are and whether you were around when the BWMS was on TV? I would say 99%+ of viewers of all races had no idea about what historical back story it had in the USA and were not offended. It was just the way things were. We were much less worldly in those days. America was a distant place and often presented as extreme and wacky. British culture has always been about laughing at ourselves and our particular characteristics in many different ways. People I have met from former empire countries seem to share the British sense of humour. One of my dearest friends is a Nigerian. We learn by getting to see things. The situation we have now is quite dishonest. With bits being snipped out of old shows without telling the audience. It was incredibly common for white actors or comedians to wear brown make-up. Pamela Stephenson appeared on Not the Nine o'clock News as Moria Stewart, Tracey Ulman appeared as Lydia from Fame in A Kick Up the Eighties with Lenny Henry as Leroy, the Two Ronnies did the minstrels and then black characters until the end in the early 80s.   What do you think of drag? I would love to hear. Surely very offensive to women? Why is it still on the BBC? Preachers are bringing forward the demise of broadcast TV. Eastenders now down to 1m viewers on some episodes according to the press. What will happen to the archives if BBCtv or ITV cease to exist or no longer have the funds to maintain them? However I do think there's a "burn the house down if I don't get my way" mentality to all of this. |
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Post by stephenconnett on Jul 8, 2023 10:01:44 GMT
Old shows which breach contemporary mores and sensitivities is a valid area for discussion in a rational way in the context of archive tv and its preservation but I don't think using the discussion to air gripes centering around "Cancel Culture" or "not like it was in the old days" moves the discussion forward in a practical way. Let's not forget that in the 50's and 60's tv many subjects and styles of presentation were forbidden in those times, so overall you can reasonably say
there's more things 'allowed' now, than there were then.
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Post by andyparting on Jul 8, 2023 10:13:25 GMT
It was a show that offended at the time and has no place even for discussion in 2023. What episodes survive should be buried and forgotten. Why anyone would want to dig them up is beyond me. Thankfully more people around now who know nothing of it, and only a minority recall it as the generations from less enlightened times fade away. I'd be interested to know what age you are and whether you were around when the BWMS was on TV? I would say 99%+ of viewers of all races had no idea about what historical back story it had in the USA and were not offended. It was just the way things were. We were much less worldly in those days. America was a distant place and often presented as extreme and wacky. British culture has always been about laughing at ourselves and our particular characteristics in many different ways. People I have met from former empire countries seem to share the British sense of humour. One of my dearest friends is a Nigerian. We learn by getting to see things. The situation we have now is quite dishonest. With bits being snipped out of old shows without telling the audience. It was incredibly common for white actors or comedians to wear brown make-up. Pamela Stephenson appeared on Not the Nine o'clock News as Moria Stewart, Tracey Ulman appeared as Lydia from Fame in A Kick Up the Eighties with Lenny Henry as Leroy, the Two Ronnies did the minstrels and then black characters until the end in the early 80s. View AttachmentView AttachmentWhat do you think of drag? I would love to hear. Surely very offensive to women? Why is it still on the BBC? Preachers are bringing forward the demise of broadcast TV. Eastenders now down to 1m viewers on some episodes according to the press. What will happen to the archives if BBCtv or ITV cease to exist or no longer have the funds to maintain them? However I do think there's a "burn the house down if I don't get my way" mentality to all of this. Again, you're talking about your pov. I'm talking about how people would find this offensive now as they did back then. The implication was mockery - have a laugh at the expense of another race. Posters on here cannot or will not see this outside of their pov, to the pov of others. This show should be erased, wiped without trace for the harm it did and can still do. Again, this thread serves no purpose other than politcal discussion, it won't find your missing clip - not that it needs finding, givig the offensive content of the dance itself. I love to hear anybody who thinks this should be preserved stand up before a 2023 TV audience and say this and show clips from it to them. See the reaction. |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jul 8, 2023 10:34:35 GMT
This show should be erased, wiped without trace for the harm it did and can still do. Again, this thread serves no purpose other than politcal discussion, it won't find your missing clip - not that it needs finding, givig the offensive content of the dance itself. I love to hear anybody who thinks this should be preserved stand up before a 2023 TV audience and say this and show clips from it to them. See the reaction. So far I didn't comment because this kind of thread can is often not a real discussion. But if you are serious about this suggestion, then what about Birth of a nation or even plain Triumph of the will? These movies are studied 1 for their craft and 2 for their part in history. I assume film students and historians who watch these works aren't rooting for the KKK or the SS. I don't see what the problem is; no-one is proposing re-broadcasting them. If someone actually wants to see an episode in an archive, let them. I doubt a cul-de-sac piece of TV like that will turn anyone racist. The funny thing is, I'm usually on the other side, outrage over PC is often insincere and the facts are usually misrepresented to fit pre-existing opinions. |
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Post by stephenconnett on Jul 8, 2023 11:27:18 GMT
I'd be interested to know what age you are and whether you were around when the BWMS was on TV? I would say 99%+ of viewers of all races had no idea about what historical back story it had in the USA and were not offended. It was just the way things were. We were much less worldly in those days. America was a distant place and often presented as extreme and wacky. British culture has always been about laughing at ourselves and our particular characteristics in many different ways. People I have met from former empire countries seem to share the British sense of humour. One of my dearest friends is a Nigerian. We learn by getting to see things. The situation we have now is quite dishonest. With bits being snipped out of old shows without telling the audience. It was incredibly common for white actors or comedians to wear brown make-up. Pamela Stephenson appeared on Not the Nine o'clock News as Moria Stewart, Tracey Ulman appeared as Lydia from Fame in A Kick Up the Eighties with Lenny Henry as Leroy, the Two Ronnies did the minstrels and then black characters until the end in the early 80s. View AttachmentView AttachmentWhat do you think of drag? I would love to hear. Surely very offensive to women? Why is it still on the BBC? Preachers are bringing forward the demise of broadcast TV. Eastenders now down to 1m viewers on some episodes according to the press. What will happen to the archives if BBCtv or ITV cease to exist or no longer have the funds to maintain them? However I do think there's a "burn the house down if I don't get my way" mentality to all of this. Again, you're talking about your pov. I'm talking about how people would find this offensive now as they did back then. The implication was mockery - have a laugh at the expense of another race. Posters on here cannot or will not see this outside of their pov, to the pov of others. This show should be erased, wiped without trace for the harm it did and can still do. Again, this thread serves no purpose other than politcal discussion, it won't find your missing clip - not that it needs finding, givig the offensive content of the dance itself. I love to hear anybody who thinks this should be preserved stand up before a 2023 TV audience and say this and show clips from it to them. See the reaction. Out of interest Andy I Iooked it up on You Tube and bizzarely there's loads of it that some people have posted there, including whole shows!!. Apart from that, the really sad part is that so much of it appears to been saved /preserved while so much more of other objectively, morally and artistically, superior stuff has been wiped or lost. You can almost hear the dire conversation over at the BBC deciding which stuff was to be preserved or junked |
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Post by andyparting on Jul 8, 2023 11:35:18 GMT
This show should be erased, wiped without trace for the harm it did and can still do. Again, this thread serves no purpose other than politcal discussion, it won't find your missing clip - not that it needs finding, givig the offensive content of the dance itself. I love to hear anybody who thinks this should be preserved stand up before a 2023 TV audience and say this and show clips from it to them. See the reaction. So far I didn't comment because this kind of thread can is often not a real discussion. But if you are serious about this suggestion, then what about Birth of a nation or even plain Triumph of the will? These movies are studied 1 for their craft and 2 for their part in history. I assume film students and historians who watch these works aren't rooting for the KKK or the SS. I don't see what the problem is; no-one is proposing re-broadcasting them. If someone actually wants to see an episode in an archive, let them. I doubt a cul-de-sac piece of TV like that will turn anyone racist. The funny thing is, I'm usually on the other side, outrage over PC is often insincere and the facts are usually misrepresented to fit pre-existing opinions. The problem is that with TB&WMS the inference is mockery at another race's expense. This is unacceptable to this day. Why look for a clip that contains such mockery? |
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Post by andyparting on Jul 8, 2023 11:36:39 GMT
Again, you're talking about your pov. I'm talking about how people would find this offensive now as they did back then. The implication was mockery - have a laugh at the expense of another race. Posters on here cannot or will not see this outside of their pov, to the pov of others. This show should be erased, wiped without trace for the harm it did and can still do. Again, this thread serves no purpose other than politcal discussion, it won't find your missing clip - not that it needs finding, givig the offensive content of the dance itself. I love to hear anybody who thinks this should be preserved stand up before a 2023 TV audience and say this and show clips from it to them. See the reaction. Out of interest Andy I Iooked it up on You Tube and bizzarely there's loads of it that some people have posted there, including whole shows!!. Apart from that, the really sad part is that so much of it appears to been saved /preserved while so much more of other objectively, morally and artistically, superior stuff has been wiped or lost. You can almost hear the dire conversation over at the BBC deciding which stuff was to be preserved or junked You will also find bullying, car crashes, deaths on YouTube, so it's hardly surprising TB&MS is also on there. |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jul 8, 2023 19:26:00 GMT
The problem is that with TB&WMS the inference is mockery at another race's expense. This is unacceptable to this day. Why look for a clip that contains such mockery? For one, you could confirm if your assumptions are correct or not. I looked up a show ages ago to see "what all the fuss was about". The alternative is that you argue the case without any first hand knowledge. It's just a weird footnote in TV history now. I very much doubt if this is what white suppremacists spend their evenings watching. Let's face it, your outrage is half a century too late. You want to ban something, that not only you never watched, but that no-one is watching on any platform, except for a few grey area videos that people check out from sheer curiosity. (In fact, you're probably only making MORE people look for it now.) |
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