Four years since Enemy and Web

[John Wall]

It’s now four years since the recovery of Enemy and Wwb (except Episode 3) was announced - although there were rumours before. There was then the (in)famous omnirumour which some of us, correctly, realised was nonsense. Subsequently, it was learnt that Philip Morris had actually located Enemy and Web (complete) in late 2011, after which he’d spent a long time fighting the system and bureaucracy to get the prints back to the UK - during which Web 3 had disappeared. He’s advised that he’s on the trail of Web 3 - but almost six years on....nothing:-(

So, where do we go from here ?

[Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy]

We give Phil the time he needs, and allow for the possibility that it will never be recovered. Heartbreaking to think about, but once a reel like that starts moving from owner to owner, person to person, there comes with it a risk of damage or destruction. It's a miracle that he recovered eleven reels of Doctor Who of which nine were missing at the time.

Phil will tell his story one day, and I'm sure he's eager to do so.

Still: HAPPY ANNIVERSARY! I recently finished watching every story of the Troughton era and Enemy of the World is certainly in my top 3.

[Charles Daniels]

Whoever took Web 3 is the Enemy of the World

[Deleted]

"There was then the (in)famous omnirumour which some of us, correctly, realised was nonsense."

The omnirumour seems like nonsense in so much as the amount of Doctor Who films mentioned, as well as other shows, all being found somewhere in Africa. But the reality is that a motherlode of episodes did actually go out to other countries, and it has never been proven on paper that places like Singapore and Zambia ever sent their episodes back to the BBC. So where are they right now? The omnirumour fails to mention Dalek Masterplan episodes and Mission to the Unknown. To me, this omission is not nonsense, and smacks more of the truth than the rumours after the omnirumour that "they're all back." Complete bollards. Beyond the thin hope of private collector's and audition prints, I'd be seriously surprised if we see any more DMP.

12 films and 'something else' is found in a TV station in Nigeria, all untouched, after all this time. That's a hell of a lot of episodes to be found. Sounds like complete nonsense to me. So why can't there be more Doctor Who film cans sitting around other places after all this time?

Four years is nothing. The longer we wait the more chance of there being a bigger recovery. Where do we go from here? We shut-up and wait, and enjoy the mind-blowing number of classic episodes that we do have on DVD, all lovingly and painstakingly restored. And then there's a Christmas Special coming our way, all written around the First Doctor's absence from Tenth Planet episode 4. What great times we live in...

[Richard Marple]

I was always suspicious of the supposed find in Taiwan few years back, especially how unlikely a place it was for any to turn up.

[andyeves]

I’m firmly in the camp who believes that Phil has found more DW, but is holding onto them until his search is complete in order to protection his on-going operation and hence maximise the likelihood of further recoveries.

I support him with this, but hopefully he’ll also take into account that those who would want to watch his recoveries the most - especially those who were in it and arguably those who watched it at the time - are no spring chickens, and the longer he leaves it then the less of us will be around to enjoy the fruits of his search.

I’m sure Deborah Watling will be eternally grateful to Phil for being able to watch Web & Enemy once again. But what a shame it would be if he’d recovered more of her episodes but she never got to view them, because he’d sat on them for so long.

[Greg H]

The omni rumour was a tad hard to swallow in all fairness. Often if something is too good to be true..... well it isn't generally true.

What got to me with that whole weird scene is how rationality was completely thrown to the wind in favour of dogged belief in yet another hokey rumour. Some people got quite nasty if you dared suggest they wait and see, before making room on their DVD shelf.

Does anyone know, is this still held as doctrine by some parts of fandom? I don't really keep an eye on them tbh.

Personally, I am hopeful that more missing 16mm prints will surface, but I don't think 'everything except for feast of Steven' is due to arrive any day now...........................

[Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy]

Oct 11, 2017 17:42:47 GMT Greg H said:

The omni rumour was a tad hard to swallow in all fairness. Often if something is too good to be true..... well it isn't generally true.

What got to me with that whole weird scene is how rationality was completely thrown to the wind in favour of dogged belief in yet another hokey rumour. Some people got quite nasty if you dared suggest they wait and see, before making room on their DVD shelf.

Does anyone know, is this still held as doctrine by some parts of fandom? I don't really keep an eye on them tbh.

Personally, I am hopeful that more missing 16mm prints will surface, but I don't think 'everything except for feast of Steven' is due to arrive any day now...........................

For the most part it has quieted down. However the boards still recycle the same arguments over and over. Belief in the mega Omni Rumor of 90+ isn't around much these days. You have a few still believing 40 or so might be back, but offer little proof other than misinterpretation of facts and circumstantial evidence. More often you get people believing in Marco Polo though. Now days it is paired with two episodes of Wheel. Again, just rumors from unnamed sources and teasing from certain fan news sites.

But gone are the absolute numerous voices and pages of bickering and endless tomfoolery. It is still there... even within last week they decided to regurgitate every thing ...but just no where near as crazy.

[lousingh]

One reaction that I liked a lot were the younger fans of the original series like my nieces and nephews. They had never experienced a big recovery like The Tomb of the Cybermen. Heck - because of the recoveries, a couple of them started watching the telesnap reconstructions and bought The Power of the Daleks. That enthusiasm is a joy to see from people who can't even remember the original run.

[John Wall]

Welll... I’m not convinced that there is a “motherlode” of episodes out there.

It’s very easy to conjure up scenarios that could result in lotsa episodes coming back - but just because something is vaguely possible doesn’t mean that it exists.

Philip Morris has been lifting up stones for quite a few years and has actually succeeded magnificently.

The number of potential locations is continually reducing as, in particular, broadcasters move to new premises. Who’d have thought that Auntie would leave TV Centre ? Whenever there’s a move - and I’ve got the T-shirt - there’s a clear out.and things get binned. I doubt that there are many broadcasters still in the same building as they were 40-45 years ago, it happened in Jos but that must have been rare.

However, as we’ve recently seen, missing episodes contemporary with, or even older, than missing Who are still turning up.

The other side of the coin is what happened to the (in)famous Private Video Library - a lot was junked by his widow when the owner died.

I hope that there are more out there, possibly in the hands of collectors. However, unlike the recently recovered “Till Death” I’m unaware of even any rumours.

[Robert Lia]

I never believed in the Omnirumor, oh it was nice to dream but all those people posting about how we had a second restoration team working on the episodes as the primary one was over booked was hilarious in my eyes.

Yes I wished it would have been true but it wasn't.

Now where are all those people who were so sure of there facts cause they had accesses to people at the top with reliable information now gone too?

[Deleted]

It's not over until the fat lady sings, Robert. And still a long way to go I imagine before she starts. The people who are so sure of the facts can't be relied on, no, but I would never have believed that 12 Doctor Who episodes could still be found sitting in a TV station in Jos after all that time. Makes me realise that there could easily be other film cans waiting to be discovered, or may have already been discovered, rumours regardless. That's where my hope lies, in the fact of finding a large number in Africa.

[Greg H]

Oct 26, 2017 21:09:16 GMT Robert Lia said:

I never believed in the Omnirumor, oh it was nice to dream but all those people posting about how we had a second restoration team working on the episodes as the primary one was over booked was hilarious in my eyes.

Yes I wished it would have been true but it wasn't.

Now where are all those people who were so sure of there facts cause they had accesses to people at the top with reliable information now gone too?

I can't remember my exact words, but I was dubious too.

On the plus side, the entire debacle may have helped to nurture a healthy sense of cynicism in some of the fanbase. Anyone with an internet connection can post on some forum somewhere that their 'high ranking contacts' have informed them that 'x' is being restored as we speak........... Doesn't make it a fact though!

[Greg H]

Oct 26, 2017 21:42:49 GMT @thelost106 said:

It's not over until the fat lady sings, Robert. And still a long way to go I imagine before she does stop singing. The people who are so sure of the facts can't be relied on, no, but I would never have believed that 12 Doctor Who episodes could still be found sitting in a TV station in Jos after all that time. Makes me realise that there could easily be other film cans waiting to be discovered, or may have already been discovered, rumours regardless. That's where my hope lies, in the fact of finding a large number in Africa.

Personally, for what it is worth, my opinion/ hunch is that there are more rusty film cans out there. Finding them is the difficult part. I would be very surprised if we didn't see more missing 60s who recovered at some point; from where and exactly what is something that we can't really say for sure. I think there are more episodes somewhere though.

[Deleted]

Oct 26, 2017 21:42:49 GMT @thelost106 said:

Personally, for what it is worth, my opinion/ hunch is that there are more rusty film cans out there. Finding them is the difficult part. I would be very surprised if we didn't see more missing 60s who recovered at some point; from where and exactly what is something that we can't really say for sure. I think there are more episodes somewhere though.

I'm just glad we have people who are at present doing that difficult part or have done so in the past. There aren't many of them but thank God for them. So easy for anyone to just sit at home typing up BS rumours.