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Post by scotttelfer on Sept 9, 2016 18:39:21 GMT
Just curious: Why did they pick The Power of the Daleks? Yes, it has so much historical significance, but was there any more to it? I am asking because there have been rumours of its recovery, albeit in bad shape, back from the time that rumours began about The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear. (I had heard that all 3 were found.) From my vantage point, this is a pretty big coincidence. Because of this coincidence, there is a part of me that wonders if it is a variation of a theory I posited in another thread: Let us assume that they found all 6 canisters of The Power of the Daleks, but the film was in very bad shape. What would you do with it if you were the BBC? Obviously, salvage as much as possible and try to make a release. Now, it is possible that you could have got large bits of the original that were OK and other bits that were beyond repair. So you could have 6 episodes, say, of a blend of a reconstruction or animation paired with actual live pieces. But if virtually all of it were in bad shape, what would you do? I personally would scour the film for every usable frame and then pay the best animators I can find to use the frames and anything workable from the original to remake them. Do we have any information one way or the other that this is what happened here? I think we can safely say no. If it had happened they would have explained the situation. You don't put in all that effort and not say so. They haven't got anything to hide if the restoration is "complete" to the best of their ability. On less optomistic note, there is a story going around (from Peter Purves originally) that The Massacre has been found in this condition. We are still awaiting official confirmation and details though.
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Post by andyeves on Sept 9, 2016 18:50:19 GMT
Just curious: Why did they pick The Power of the Daleks? Yes, it has so much historical significance, but was there any more to it? I am asking because there have been rumours of its recovery, albeit in bad shape, back from the time that rumours began about The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear. (I had heard that all 3 were found.) From my vantage point, this is a pretty big coincidence. Because of this coincidence, there is a part of me that wonders if it is a variation of a theory I posited in another thread: Let us assume that they found all 6 canisters of The Power of the Daleks, but the film was in very bad shape. What would you do with it if you were the BBC? Obviously, salvage as much as possible and try to make a release. Now, it is possible that you could have got large bits of the original that were OK and other bits that were beyond repair. So you could have 6 episodes, say, of a blend of a reconstruction or animation paired with actual live pieces. But if virtually all of it were in bad shape, what would you do? I personally would scour the film for every usable frame and then pay the best animators I can find to use the frames and anything workable from the original to remake them. Do we have any information one way or the other that this is what happened here? I think we can safely say no. If it had happened they would have explained the situation. You don't put in all that effort and not say so. They haven't got anything to hide if the restoration is "complete" to the best of their ability. On less optomistic note, there is a story going around (from Peter Purves originally) that The Massacre has been found in this condition. We are still awaiting official confirmation and details though. People are reading far too much into the commission of the animation!!! Re Peter Purves & The Massacre ... Steve Roberts made a good point about how the omnirumour gains credibility via Chinese Whispers. He gave the example of how, at a convention, someone may say to Deborah Watling "I've heard that one of your episodes has been found." So she'll say to someone else "I've heard that one of my episodes has been found" ... and suddenly it is seen to come from a credible source.
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Post by scotttelfer on Sept 9, 2016 19:06:43 GMT
People are reading far too much into the commission of the animation!!! Re Peter Purves & The Massacre ... Steve Roberts made a good point about how the omnirumour gains credibility via Chinese Whispers. He gave the example of how, at a convention, someone may say to Deborah Watling "I've heard that one of your episodes has been found." So she'll say to someone else "I've heard that one of my episodes has been found" ... and suddenly it is seen to come from a credible source. As I've said before, the only thing we can read into it is that they don't have it back yet. That's immensely different from saying it's been verified as no longer existing as some seem to think. As for The Massacre, it is true... that there was a rumour. When it's something not too nice like that one though, it's a bit easier to give it a bit more consideration of "what if". The worst case is that it actually does turn out to be true.
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Post by ianphillips on Sept 9, 2016 19:09:46 GMT
People are reading far too much into the commission of the animation!!! Re Peter Purves & The Massacre ... Steve Roberts made a good point about how the omnirumour gains credibility via Chinese Whispers. He gave the example of how, at a convention, someone may say to Deborah Watling "I've heard that one of your episodes has been found." So she'll say to someone else "I've heard that one of my episodes has been found" ... and suddenly it is seen to come from a credible source. As I've said before, the only thing we can read into it is that they don't have it back yet. That's immensely different from saying it's been verified as no longer existing as some seem to think. As for The Massacre, it is true... that there was a rumour. When it's something not too nice like that one though, it's a bit easier to give it a bit more consideration of "what if". The worst case is that it actually does turn out to be true. It's a bit ironic when you think about it considering that many more of the good rumors have turned out to be true than the bad rumors.
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Post by andyeves on Sept 9, 2016 19:44:54 GMT
People are reading far too much into the commission of the animation!!! Re Peter Purves & The Massacre ... Steve Roberts made a good point about how the omnirumour gains credibility via Chinese Whispers. He gave the example of how, at a convention, someone may say to Deborah Watling "I've heard that one of your episodes has been found." So she'll say to someone else "I've heard that one of my episodes has been found" ... and suddenly it is seen to come from a credible source. As I've said before, the only thing we can read into it is that they don't have it back yet. That's immensely different from saying it's been verified as no longer existing as some seem to think. As for The Massacre, it is true... that there was a rumour. When it's something not too nice like that one though, it's a bit easier to give it a bit more consideration of "what if". The worst case is that it actually does turn out to be true. My comment about people reading too much into the commission of the animation wasn't aimed at you Scott, but rather the post that you were responding to (embedded within yours). Re The Massacre, the fact that it was said by Peter Purves, I personally wouldn't put any more weight on it than if I'd heard it on a forum ... unless he'd first confirmed that it come from a very reliable source.
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Post by lousingh on Sept 9, 2016 20:23:18 GMT
Thanks for everyone's replies.
The reason that I posited this idea was because I had heard three complete stories had been found: "The Enemy of the World" and "The Web of Fear from Africa"; "The Power of the Daleks" from Southeast Asia. (My sources have been very reliable in the past, so I give them more credence than you might.) Of course, it could be wrong (they've been wrong before, but they don't blow smoke). But I am glad I asked anyway.
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Sept 9, 2016 20:32:40 GMT
Thanks for everyone's replies. The reason that I posited this idea was because I had heard three complete stories had been found: "The Enemy of the World" and "The Web of Fear from Africa"; "The Power of the Daleks" from Southeast Asia. (My sources have been very reliable in the past, so I give them more credence than you might.) Of course, it could be wrong (they've been wrong before, but they don't blow smoke). But I am glad I asked anyway. And still the rumour that Power has been found keeps rolling on,despite an animation of a technically high standard being released for it's 50th anniversary...
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Post by andyeves on Sept 9, 2016 20:57:01 GMT
Thanks for everyone's replies. The reason that I posited this idea was because I had heard three complete stories had been found: "The Enemy of the World" and "The Web of Fear from Africa"; "The Power of the Daleks" from Southeast Asia. (My sources have been very reliable in the past, so I give them more credence than you might.) Of course, it could be wrong (they've been wrong before, but they don't blow smoke). But I am glad I asked anyway. Did your source actually say that Power had been returned badly damaged? Or were you just inferring that from the commission of the animation? If the latter, you missed out on a far better conspiracy theory, whereby the BBC has the whole of Power in good condition. Hence the reason why they can afford to create this animation - computer techniques can convert film to animation very cheaply these days. Their motive - to make a lot of money from selling us an animation before releasing the real thing. That would have made a far better conspiracy theory in my book ... and that the animation conclusively proves that they hold Power in its entirety! :-)
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Post by lousingh on Sept 10, 2016 0:43:32 GMT
Thanks for everyone's replies. The reason that I posited this idea was because I had heard three complete stories had been found: "The Enemy of the World" and "The Web of Fear from Africa"; "The Power of the Daleks" from Southeast Asia. (My sources have been very reliable in the past, so I give them more credence than you might.) Of course, it could be wrong (they've been wrong before, but they don't blow smoke). But I am glad I asked anyway. Did your source actually say that Power had been returned badly damaged? Or were you just inferring that from the commission of the animation? If the latter, you missed out on a far better conspiracy theory, whereby the BBC has the whole of Power in good condition. Hence the reason why they can afford to create this animation - computer techniques can convert film to animation very cheaply these days. Their motive - to make a lot of money from selling us an animation before releasing the real thing. That would have made a far better conspiracy theory in my book ... and that the animation conclusively proves that they hold Power in its entirety! :-) My sources said that Power was "apparently in pretty bad shape" and "borderline disintegrating in parts". I asked my parents (both are retired Industrial Chemists) how hard it would be to salvage the films, assuming they existed. After a look at some of the Journals, I told one of my contacts that it might not be possible to salvage it, in which case, I figured the BBC would just clam up about it. My other contact spoke with a friend in computer media who said that if they got enough of a sample of frames from different scenes, then they might be able to use the frames to make a decent looking print that looks kinda-sorta like live-action. Then, a friend of mine from my old workplace (a media distribution company) said that with the telesnaps, they might be able to make an animated copy comparatively cheaply even without a new print. Based on what little I have seen of the animation, I am going with they made it from the telesnaps and whatever other material they have. It does not look like they have the precision I was told to expect had the animation been remade from parts of a workable print. (The give-away was the movement of people does not look smooth. If they had been able to use a large sampling of new material, even an average of 2 frames / second would be smoother than this.)
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Post by lousingh on Sept 10, 2016 0:55:56 GMT
Thanks for everyone's replies. The reason that I posited this idea was because I had heard three complete stories had been found: "The Enemy of the World" and "The Web of Fear from Africa"; "The Power of the Daleks" from Southeast Asia. (My sources have been very reliable in the past, so I give them more credence than you might.) Of course, it could be wrong (they've been wrong before, but they don't blow smoke). But I am glad I asked anyway. And still the rumour that Power has been found keeps rolling on,despite an animation of a technically high standard being released for it's 50th anniversary... This was from when the Omni-rumour first appeared. It is not current. I only remembered it because of this animated version. I should mention that I follow-up hockey rumours the same way. I myself pass on information that I get from North American hockey cognoscenti to others. I always back-track rumours to evaluate the quality of information I get and to help my contacts evaluate their sources. Sometimes the feedback is immediate or comes many years later, right or wrong. (You ever found out that something you heard 8, 15, or even 40 years before was true or false? I have.)
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 10, 2016 4:45:06 GMT
Just curious: Why did they pick The Power of the Daleks? Yes, it has so much historical significance, but was there any more to it? I am asking because there have been rumours of its recovery, albeit in bad shape, back from the time that rumours began about The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear. (I had heard that all 3 were found.) From my vantage point, this is a pretty big coincidence. Because of this coincidence, there is a part of me that wonders if it is a variation of a theory I posited in another thread: Let us assume that they found all 6 canisters of The Power of the Daleks, but the film was in very bad shape. What would you do with it if you were the BBC? Obviously, salvage as much as possible and try to make a release. Now, it is possible that you could have got large bits of the original that were OK and other bits that were beyond repair. So you could have 6 episodes, say, of a blend of a reconstruction or animation paired with actual live pieces. But if virtually all of it were in bad shape, what would you do? I personally would scour the film for every usable frame and then pay the best animators I can find to use the frames and anything workable from the original to remake them. Do we have any information one way or the other that this is what happened here? Doubtful, but interestingly enough a lot of the write ups on line talk of a blend of existing material and animation. It's probably all a misunderstanding but it does makes you wonder a bit. The other tease is why animate in monochrome if no material is included? Is it much more expensive to animate in colour? If this is being done as a money spinner, and is fully animated wouldn't colour be more popular and easier to market? I seem to remember that a lot of set and publicity shots exist for Power (weren't the Daleks "bumps" blue?- it's got to be 20 years since I looked at them in Dr Who magazine?)
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Post by Jaspal Cheema on Sept 10, 2016 9:15:16 GMT
Just curious: Why did they pick The Power of the Daleks? Yes, it has so much historical significance, but was there any more to it? I am asking because there have been rumours of its recovery, albeit in bad shape, back from the time that rumours began about The Enemy of the World and The Web of Fear. (I had heard that all 3 were found.) From my vantage point, this is a pretty big coincidence. Because of this coincidence, there is a part of me that wonders if it is a variation of a theory I posited in another thread: Let us assume that they found all 6 canisters of The Power of the Daleks, but the film was in very bad shape. What would you do with it if you were the BBC? Obviously, salvage as much as possible and try to make a release. Now, it is possible that you could have got large bits of the original that were OK and other bits that were beyond repair. So you could have 6 episodes, say, of a blend of a reconstruction or animation paired with actual live pieces. But if virtually all of it were in bad shape, what would you do? I personally would scour the film for every usable frame and then pay the best animators I can find to use the frames and anything workable from the original to remake them. Do we have any information one way or the other that this is what happened here? Unfortunately Lou,the BBC would have made the admission that they had found the original prints and adapted the animation from parts of the prints that were recoverable,also showing film cannisters and possible re-mastering work.However,no such admission has been made and it seems pointless not to,especially as it would generate so much publicity for the animation and frenzy among fans.
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Sept 10, 2016 13:11:26 GMT
I'd say all we can assume is that they have made an animation of Power to hit its 50th anniversary and that no complete episode of Power has yet been recovered. This doesn't mean that it won't turn up, however...
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Post by martinjwills on Sept 10, 2016 13:34:15 GMT
I think i remember the BBC saying they would only animate stories with 1 or 2 episodes missing, as with the previous animations, it is interesting why they would do a story with 6 episodes missing, even for a 50th when there are stories with less missing. If Power now complied with only 1, 2 or 3 episodes missing, it would meet that statement.
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Post by andrewfrostick on Sept 10, 2016 14:00:54 GMT
I think i remember the BBC saying they would only animate stories with 1 or 2 episodes missing, as with the previous animations, it is interesting why they would do a story with 6 episodes missing, even for a 50th when there are stories with less missing. If Power now complied with only 1, 2 or 3 episodes missing, it would meet that statement. It really is quite amazing that they have done all 6 eps. At 20 mins each (allowing for near repeated titles) that's 2 hours of animation! Well over the length of a normal animated feature and nearly as many as all other Who animations so far
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