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Post by mikeberke on Mar 6, 2014 9:47:08 GMT
I keep reading things on numerous boards, including this one about Invasion of the Dinosaurs being lost, or hoping its still found. Yet I saw it on tv in the 80's, own it on DVD now with that episode available in b/w and color, so what's the deal? How is it "still lost"?
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Post by shellyharman67 on Mar 6, 2014 10:18:45 GMT
I keep reading things on numerous boards, including this one about Invasion of the Dinosaurs being lost, or hoping its still found. Yet I saw it on tv in the 80's, own it on DVD now with that episode available in b/w and color, so what's the deal? How is it "still lost"? Colour copy still missing ! Ep 1 was colourised.
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Post by scotttelfer on Mar 6, 2014 10:30:17 GMT
And even then the colourisation process is problematic, the print was so poor the blue chroma dots were all missing and had to be added in artificially which isn't exactly the best of methods as you will see.
You have the other extreme which is The Mind of Evil, they've got a very good black and white copy, but that means the chroma dots are completely missing so it was recolourised by hand (which had far better results than trying to do it with two colours existing).
As of the moment those two stories are considered "missing" due to the colour content being missing, although they clearly are in a far better state than the 60s episodes, we are jst restricted to viewing them the same way most people would have done on first transmission (B/W and colour televisions didn't get to a 50/50 split until 1975 after all).
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Post by andyeves on Mar 6, 2014 12:12:13 GMT
And even then the colourisation process is problematic, the print was so poor the blue chroma dots were all missing and had to be added in artificially which isn't exactly the best of methods as you will see. You have the other extreme which is The Mind of Evil, they've got a very good black and white copy, but that means the chroma dots are completely missing so it was recolourised by hand (which had far better results than trying to do it with two colours existing). Is there a plan in place to produce a commercially acceptable colour version of Dinosaurs E1, does anyone know, whether it be colourisation by hand or otherwise?
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Post by scotttelfer on Mar 6, 2014 12:27:07 GMT
And even then the colourisation process is problematic, the print was so poor the blue chroma dots were all missing and had to be added in artificially which isn't exactly the best of methods as you will see. You have the other extreme which is The Mind of Evil, they've got a very good black and white copy, but that means the chroma dots are completely missing so it was recolourised by hand (which had far better results than trying to do it with two colours existing). Is there a plan in place to produce a commercially acceptable colour version of Dinosaurs E1, does anyone know, whether it be colourisation by hand or otherwise? Won't be commercial available, I can say that much. There's a fair few colourisers out there and have been for many years, but they all seem to want to do Hartnell stuff rather than the episodes that actually need it (thankfully the DVD team managed to get one on board to do The Mind of Evil, but nobody has attempted "Invasion" Part One yet, at least not the whole thing).
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Post by Richard Tipple on Mar 6, 2014 12:45:43 GMT
Colour copy still missing ! Ep 1 was colourised. It wasn't colourised in the traditional sense. Colour was restored using a process called Chroma dot colour recovery. Is there a plan in place to produce a commercially acceptable colour version of Dinosaurs E1, does anyone know, whether it be colourisation by hand or otherwise? Ian Levine contacted me about the possibility of finding a way to restore the missing blues throughout episode one. I said I'd look into it. Several months ago I ran a few manual colourisation tests on the opening sequence and had fairly good results. I have them in front of me now. However I'd need much better source material to work with in order to take it to the next level. Getting the colour mix is tricky and even though it's only the 'blues' that are missing you have to work with a much wider pallet in order to get something that looks natural. The time that goes into colourisations is phenomenal. 'Mind of Evil' took long enough doing one frame in five, let alone every frame. BabelColour (Stuart H) said he'd never do another full episode - the work involved was staggering. As for me, I think I could get Dinosaurs 1 into a much better state - not Evil good, but much better than it currently is. Hopefully and dare I say 'probably' better enough for a rerelease. That being said if I did it, I'd do it in my own time as a fan project. Doing it as a fan project means it's up to people to go and find it, I'm not forcing it on anyone. Anyone that's ever worked in a creative field will know how much damage one negative voice can do, even when surround by one hundred positive ones! I've actually only been coloursing for a couple of years so it's something I'm always working on. Practice makes perfect. I should add, my current work on the 60's era is very much a look that's natural to me. Like an artist that picks a certain way of painting something, everyone has their own style. I like a vivid semi'technicolour'look to the older stuff but working with IofD would require me to go for a much more natural style. Not impossible, but comes less naturally to me. If you haven't seen my work, here's a recent example. A short clip taken from an episode of Dalek Masterplan: itsfarfrombeingallover.com/?p=76
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Post by Richard Tipple on Mar 6, 2014 12:56:01 GMT
Is there a plan in place to produce a commercially acceptable colour version of Dinosaurs E1, does anyone know, whether it be colourisation by hand or otherwise? There's a fair few colourisers out there and have been for many years, but they all seem to want to do Hartnell stuff rather than the episodes that actually need it (thankfully the DVD team managed to get one on board to do The Mind of Evil, but nobody has attempted "Invasion" Part One yet, at least not the whole thing). There really aren't that many of us. And I believe most, if not all of us do it as a side hobby. So if they want to focus on Hartnell it's kinda their prerogative. If you fancy giving it a go I'd be more than happy to teach you how I do it, and then you could get everything 'that needs it' sorted! I'm sure it'd take you no time!
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Post by scotttelfer on Mar 6, 2014 13:18:15 GMT
There's a fair few colourisers out there and have been for many years, but they all seem to want to do Hartnell stuff rather than the episodes that actually need it (thankfully the DVD team managed to get one on board to do The Mind of Evil, but nobody has attempted "Invasion" Part One yet, at least not the whole thing). There really aren't that many of us. And I believe most, if not all of us do it as a side hobby. So if they want to focus on Hartnell it's kinda their prerogative. If you fancy giving it a go I'd be more than happy to teach you how I do it, and then you could get everything 'that needs it' sorted! I'm sure it'd take you no time! Certainly sounds interesting. I've always wanted to give it a go and I've been meaning to get a new hobby for a while.
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Post by brianfretwell on Mar 6, 2014 13:26:11 GMT
The early colour film processes were red & Green only (Kinemacolor, 2 strip Techinicolor Cinecolor etc) so the missing blue isn't too bad to watch if you're a vintage film fan.
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Post by Richard Marple on Mar 6, 2014 13:37:25 GMT
The Aviator was tinted to look like early colour, so a golf course looks blue.
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Post by Richard Tipple on Mar 6, 2014 13:49:19 GMT
There really aren't that many of us. And I believe most, if not all of us do it as a side hobby. So if they want to focus on Hartnell it's kinda their prerogative. If you fancy giving it a go I'd be more than happy to teach you how I do it, and then you could get everything 'that needs it' sorted! I'm sure it'd take you no time! Certainly sounds interesting. I've always wanted to give it a go and I've been meaning to get a new hobby for a while. How about a skype lesson?! You'll need the footage you want to work on, Adobe After Effects and a bit of patience!
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Post by simonashby on Mar 6, 2014 14:13:03 GMT
As of the moment those two stories are considered "missing" due to the colour content being missing, although they clearly are in a far better state than the 60s episodes, we are jst restricted to viewing them the same way most people would have done on first transmission (B/W and colour televisions didn't get to a 50/50 split until 1975 after all). I think we're really skewing the definition of missing. It's like saying Enemy of the World is still missing - simply because it's original format doesn't exist. No different to IOD 1.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Mar 6, 2014 14:20:06 GMT
As of the moment those two stories are considered "missing" due to the colour content being missing, although they clearly are in a far better state than the 60s episodes, we are jst restricted to viewing them the same way most people would have done on first transmission (B/W and colour televisions didn't get to a 50/50 split until 1975 after all). I think we're really skewing the definition of missing. It's like saying Enemy of the World is still missing - simply because it's original format doesn't exist. No different to IOD 1. We have it in a form at least !
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Post by Justin Watson on Mar 6, 2014 14:50:14 GMT
Colour copy still missing ! Ep 1 was colourised. It wasn't colourised in the traditional sense. Colour was restored using a process called Chroma dot colour recovery. Is there a plan in place to produce a commercially acceptable colour version of Dinosaurs E1, does anyone know, whether it be colourisation by hand or otherwise? Ian Levine contacted me about the possibility of finding a way to restore the missing blues throughout episode one. I said I'd look into it. Several months ago I ran a few manual colourisation tests on the opening sequence and had fairly good results. I have them in front of me now. However I'd need much better source material to work with in order to take it to the next level. Getting the colour mix is tricky and even though it's only the 'blues' that are missing you have to work with a much wider pallet in order to get something that looks natural. The time that goes into colourisations is phenomenal. 'Mind of Evil' took long enough doing one frame in five, let alone every frame. BabelColour (Stuart H) said he'd never do another full episode - the work involved was staggering. As for me, I think I could get Dinosaurs 1 into a much better state - not Evil good, but much better than it currently is. Hopefully and dare I say 'probably' better enough for a rerelease. That being said if I did it, I'd do it in my own time as a fan project. Doing it as a fan project means it's up to people to go and find it, I'm not forcing it on anyone. Anyone that's ever worked in a creative field will know how much damage one negative voice can do, even when surround by one hundred positive ones! I've actually only been coloursing for a couple of years so it's something I'm always working on. Practice makes perfect. I should add, my current work on the 60's era is very much a look that's natural to me. Like an artist that picks a certain way of painting something, everyone has their own style. I like a vivid semi'technicolour'look to the older stuff but working with IofD would require me to go for a much more natural style. Not impossible, but comes less naturally to me. If you haven't seen my work, here's a recent example. A short clip taken from an episode of Dalek Masterplan: itsfarfrombeingallover.com/?p=76Sounds reasonable to me. Keep plugging away at the things that you enjoy doing...if you work to someone else's schedule it will only diminish the enjoyment...unless someone is willing to pay of course - that would be a different matter . I suppose it's also a less enticing project to recolour IotD, as the DVD release, whilst imperfect, has the majority of colour present - so the difference is less exciting than turning straight B&W into colour. Poor old Babelcolour - He really suffered to get MoE out on schedule and it's to his credit that he did it (in the end I think BC was down to a frame in every ten - just shows how much time goes into these things though).
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Post by Simon Jailler on Mar 6, 2014 14:54:20 GMT
Is it true that Invasion of the Dinosaurs ep1 was wiped/junked because someone got it muddled up with ep1 of "The Invasion" ?
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