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Post by garyp on Mar 5, 2014 18:01:31 GMT
Hello everyone, I am new to these message boards and can i start of by thanking everyone who contributes to the various subject matters.I am always amazed by the many knowledgeable people on here and admire their efforts to inform us of various issues/updates and the reminiscing of some wonderful tv........thank you. Now onto my question which i hope can be answered. I have a large DVD collection of Fa cup finals from the 50's upto the 90's released on the ilc sports label.What i find strange is that the 1965 Fa cup final (leeds vs liverpool) is filmed on videotape as is the 1966 world cup final,yet the 1966,67,and 68 ( the latter i do believe may have been broadcast on vt in colour on BBC2) all appear to be on inferior film.Now please forgive me but i am not to hot on technology so i would like to know if anyone can shed any light onto why this is. Incidentally i believe the whole of the 1966 world cup tournemant was filmed on videotape so i find it hard to understand why a year later the Fa cup final is not on videotape.Were the original recordings lost and so the only copies available are inferior ones. Many thanks for taking the time to read this request. Gary  |
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Post by williammcgregor on Mar 5, 2014 23:23:05 GMT
Hi Gary, I can't answer your question; but at least I can welcome you to the Forum! English football fans are so lucky as at least you get the chance to see Cup Finals from the 50's and 60's on DVD In Scotland the amount of football released on DVD from that era is almost non-existant...and if you're not a fan of Celtic or Rangers forget it mate. I'm sorry I know it's off topic but my team HIBERNIAN played LEEDS UTD and LIVERPOOL twice in European competitions... Inter Cities Fairs Cup Rd 3 20.12.67 Leeds Utd 1 Hibernian 0 Rd 3 10.01.68 Hibernian 1 Leeds Utd 1 UEFA Cup Rd 2 24.10.73 Leeds Utd 0 Hibernian 0 Rd 2 07.11.73 Hibernian 0 Leeds Utd 0 (Leeds won 5-4 on Penalties) Inter Cities Fairs Cup Rd 3 09.12.70 Hibernian 0 Liverpool 1 Rd 3 15.12.70 Liverpool 2 Hibernian 0 UEFA Cup Rd 1 17.09.75 Hibernian 1 Liverpool 0 Rd 1 30.09.75 Liverpool 3 Hibernian 1 I was at all the games home and away (great days regardless of the eventual outcomes) Anyway Gary,hope you get the answer to your question cheers William |
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Mar 6, 2014 11:12:39 GMT
Gary, I'm GUESSING, I have no certainty on this though, that the policies as regarding archiving sport at the BBC changed several times, and during that period, some things were copied on to some mediums, and some were not.
Just my theory.
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Post by Patrick Coles on Mar 6, 2014 16:10:33 GMT
I have a number of F.A.Cup Finals on DVD and VHS too - that 'all London' 1967 final Spurs-2 Chelsea-1 has extensive first half footage but the second half is very short...!!
Spurs second goal scored by Frank Saul (later with your team Southampton Ray !) is barely there at all ....suddenly the ball is on it's way into Chelsea's net...!
likewise not much of the 'extra time' of the classic 1968 Manchester United - 4 Benfica-1 European Cup final footage survives it seems beyond United's three quick goals...after Bobby Charlton's final goal suddenly it's all over & United are picking up the cup...
I agree Scottish football is very poorly represented re DVDs or Video releases - Celtic & Rangers TV channels (now gone from my package !) showed some classic sixties games in b/w, but as William said if your not a Celtic or Rangers fan...hard luck !!
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Post by garyp on Mar 6, 2014 16:31:17 GMT
Hi,
@ william.......thankyou for your reply.......i have a soft spot for hibernian,i think it stems back to the 1972 scottish cup final when highlights were shown during grandstand which was broadcasting the arsenal v leeds final.I was an arsenal supporter in those days and i think i got attracted to hibernian because their kit was the same design as arsenal's except in green.
I would love to be able to get hold of dvd's of the scottish cup finals from the 60's/70's........do you know if any are available?.
@ Ray.........thank you too for replying, when you say somethings were copied to a different medium and some were'nt does that mean that the original broadcasts of the 66,67 cup finals would have been on videotape or were the bbc experimenting with the 65 cup final and 66 world cup final?.
I could research old issues of the radio/tv times but i dont think that will tell me the broadcast quality,but any help in any direction would be most welcome.
@patrick........thanks for you comments too........i too find it strange about the 67 cup final and the length of the dvd,somethings not quite right there.
You mention the 1968 european cup final which has another strange issue in that the game seems to be on videotape then switches quality to what appears film......any opinions as to why that may be?.
Sad to that scottish football is dominated by celtic/rangers i would love to see more scottish football released on dvd even the national teams games from the 60's/70's.
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Post by Kelvin Walker on Mar 6, 2014 17:18:43 GMT
The 1967 FA Cup Final was shown LIVE only on ITV on 20/05/1967 with Hugh Johns and Billy Wright as the commentators, the BBC only had a 50 minute show of highlights on Match of the Day broadcasted at 10.00pm that evening introduced and commentary from Kenneth Wolstenholme. On the DVD release, who does the commentary, hope this helps.
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Post by williammcgregor on Mar 6, 2014 17:36:20 GMT
Hi, @ william.......thankyou for your reply.......i have a soft spot for hibernian,i think it stems back to the 1972 scottish cup final when highlights were shown during grandstand which was broadcasting the arsenal v leeds final.I was an arsenal supporter in those days and i think i got attracted to hibernian because their kit was the same design as arsenal's except in green. I would love to be able to get hold of dvd's of the scottish cup finals from the 60's/70's........do you know if any are available?. Hello again Gary,
Glad to see your thread is getting plenty replies!
Great to hear you have a soft spot for Hibernian or the (Hibs/Hibees)
I was at the 1972 Cup Final what a b****y disaster we lost 6-1 it was 1-1 at one stage.
Funny thing is, we had a great team in those days, the players just froze on the day, plus bad tactics also we were up against Jock Stein's Celtic who we in the middle of 9 Championship's in a row! (oh I forgot 6 off-side goals) and the ref had a stinker!
We returned to Hampden 4 months later and got some revenge by beating Celtic 2-1 to win the Scottish league Cup.
A HIBERNIAN Legend joined ARSENAL from the Italian team TORINO in 1962 step forward the one and only JOE BAKER! he was a bit before my time but I've heard that he was something special he even played at Centre Forward for ENGLAND whilst playing for Hibernian
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Baker
also do you remember Peter Marinello he joined Arsenal from Hibernian in 1970
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/6659977.stm
www.wsc.co.uk/reviews/64-Players/369-fallen-idle
he was on TOTP as well handing out awards to young females along with
Tony Blackburn?
cheers
William
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Post by Richard Marple on Mar 6, 2014 18:09:27 GMT
I remember the now closed shop Sportspages in Manchester had a shelf of videos of all the FA Cup finals.
I've heard Peter Marinello was hailed as the "Scottish George Best" when he moved to Arsenal, but never seemed to fit into their team.
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Post by garyp on Mar 6, 2014 21:00:56 GMT
Kevin ,kenneth wolstenholme is the commentator on the ils spoerts dvd release of the 1967 chelsea v spurs cup final.
William i do remember peter marinello signing for arsenal and as richard says he was hailed as the new george best.I think that expectation and the so called 'bright lights of london' maybe affected him and had a negative impact on his time at arsenal,because he certainly did have talent.
Your right about the 'hibees' team and the talent they had,but celtic were unstopable for 9 years :-( .
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Post by andyc on Mar 6, 2014 23:22:40 GMT
Regarding the 1968 European Cup Final - There are some fairly good highlights of the 2nd half of ET here - www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U8q7yJaBYI&list=PLC8AA026406462BDCAs for the switch between videotape and film, this happens at the start of extra time, not sure why, however the game was shown live on both BBC *and* ITV, might be worth checking out the latter coverage to see if it's the same. |
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Post by Patrick Coles on Mar 7, 2014 10:49:36 GMT
Peter Marinello was indeed hailed as the 'New George Best' when Arsenal signed him from Hibernian - which was a big enough millstone around the lad's neck...plus he was on 'Top of The Pops' etc & featured as a 'pin up' in girl's Pop mags etc...
but he found the English first divison a bit of a 'rude awakening' as he was 'kicked to death' by some defenders and sadly failed to live up to his clear potential and ability - he was a fine player without doubt but like alot of 'tricky wingers' he was regularly kicked to death with scant (if any) protection from referees...thus suffered a few injuries while down in England
Portsmouth (I can hear Ray groan !!) later signed him from Arsenal and played quite a few games for them in the English second division, but again often suffered a 'good kicking' from the more dour lower division defenders and I think he eventually returned to his native Scotland (?)
all the 'Next George Best' hype did the talented lad no favours....
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Post by paul carney on Mar 7, 2014 11:30:43 GMT
Regarding the archive status of FA Cup Finals from the 1960s I think you should not look too hard for a coherent strategy from the BBC. Without doubt all FA Cup finals in the 60s were videotaped originally but all of the b/w ones were subsequently transferred to film ,apart from the 1965 game. Why it survives on the original VT is probably a lucky accident of fate.
Re 1966 World Cup ,again a bit of pot luck what got presereved on original VT and what was transferred to film and then wiped. ITV even wiped their VT of the final and as I remember it was commentator Hugh Jones who pleaded with them to at least make a t/r before wiping.
Re 1968 European Cup final it does revert to a telerecording for the extra time period ,presumably the VT protion for extra time was wiped long before the BBC had any idea that they would be able to commercially recycle the whole match to the general population. I have though seen a VT version of the extra time goals from the ITV broadcast that night.
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Post by Peter Prentice on Mar 7, 2014 13:11:49 GMT
Mention of the 1966 World Cup Final leads me to ask a longstanding question: Is there a UK or non-UK DVD release of the WHOLE game? Every version I've seen falls some 18 minutes short. The BBC's 2002 edition, for example, has a first half starting at 05.25 and ending at 45:10, with a second half starting at 45:50 and ending at 1:17:50.
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Post by garyfreeman on Mar 7, 2014 15:43:40 GMT
I think that all of the previous posters on this topic are more or less correct. I have been told by the BBC sports achieve that all transmitted fa cup finals are held as telerecordings. The 1965 FA cup final is held on video tape, and is indeed, as a previous poster quoted, a complete freak. All of the BBC’S transmitted cup finals are available on DVD or VHS tape.
The ITV archive holdings are another story all together. Officially, every cup final since 1969 (London weekend covering as itv sports) is in the achieve, although one or two items have been lost and subsequently replaced along the way (1970 replay). The fa cup final prior to 1969 was covered by either ABC WEEKEND TELEVISION as part of world of sport or ATV LONDON. These are all officially missing as the footage of the finals was kept by the companies covering the final, as there was no ITV SPORTS per say at that time. However, there is evidence that a lot of ITV 1960’s footage is beginning to leak out into the collectors markets. Footage of cup finals with GERRY LOFTUS commentating is held by ITN and the 1968 cup final with HUGH JOHNS is held at BFI.
All of the 1966 world cup games are held by both companies but the games held by ITV were donated by the BBC after ITV lost the footage, and hence all have BBC commentary. One or two itv games including the final and quarter final do survive with HUGH JOHNS as commentator. One interesting thing about the ITV world cup66 archive is there appears to be a fair bit of pre/after game presentation surviving for some reason, with Eamon Andrews presenting.
Unfortunately, there is no definitive itv football archive holding as due regional coverage and archives being scattered around. My understanding is that a lot of STV footage was destroyed in the early seventies in a fire.
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Post by simoncurtis on Mar 9, 2014 2:10:52 GMT
Mention of the 1966 World Cup Final leads me to ask a longstanding question: Is there a UK or non-UK DVD release of the WHOLE game? Every version I've seen falls some 18 minutes short. The BBC's 2002 edition, for example, has a first half starting at 05.25 and ending at 45:10, with a second half starting at 45:50 and ending at 1:17:50.[/q The original BBC VHS release had a mix of VT and telerecored footage. I always assumed that only highlights had been kept on VT [Drunk] |
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