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Post by Ade Gregg on Jun 4, 2005 8:24:46 GMT
Hi Guys,
I was thinking of some ways to "entice" Collectors to part with various epps of "whatever",
How about this.. we get cracking on a project called
Archive DVD for TV Or somthing
We form a small Group of people who have the equiptment (like Me) to put Video Onto High Quality DVD
Im talking 10mbps dvd's encoded with Procoder 2.. like I do..
The reason Im talking all this blahh at the moment is this.. Just Imagine..
Fred has just met John, who is a collector, John has several epps of say " Z Cars " which may not exist, Fred Having Dvd's of many B&W epps of " Zcars " that We have made could use these discs for barter , Just to get the epp back for a quick (proper) Transfer and then back in Johns Hands.
The Reason for all this you say..
1. Most collectors Don't have any Idea that the Tr's are missing in Most cases (and usally Dont give a dam.. Trust me)
2. They Just Like to (or liked to 20 years ago) Watch Zcars, and the chance for them to see a whole pile of epps that they themselfs don't have may be the leaver to spirit the epp away for a Copy to be made..
3. I really really really like Archive Telly and living in Australia I Never never get the chance to attend any Archive Telly Events Ever.. Never get the chance to buy all those fablous DVD's of archive telly you have there. and couldent afford to anyway..
4thly and lastly..
It would not do ANY tv compaines any harm.. you wodent sell and of the dvd's just give em away to anyone would like them (within reason)
The Reason for all this.. Again!!
Iv'e been in this Game 20 years now and have seen prints. discs etc that I know for Certin are missing..
but the gentelmen who have them say and i quoute
(remember this kiddies)
"why the hell should I lend my prints out, I own em, and have for the best part of 40 years. They shouden't have got rid of em in the 1st place.. bloody fools.
look no one is interested in this stuff anymore, hell i hevent seen em myself in 30 years.. If i lend them back then what.. theyd never be shown again. Id have to pay for em to be shipped there and back, nahhh bugger it, they can have em whem i'm dead"
That the gist of about 10 interviews i conducted with film collectors who had bona fide missing TR's. the saddest this is that when these Kind old Gentlemen die ( and belive me these guys are Real Gentelemen and get VERY VERY upset by the idea that people think of them as mean because they won't give up Thier Property)
thier kids will throw out the films, A few of my contacts i contacted again had passed on and i got to speak with thier windows or children and 9 times out of 10..
they say "oh all that stuff yes we sent all that to the tip first, then i got my room back"
And before you say..
But if there are missing web pages the chance that one of these guys will see it and hand stuff back......
Look get REAL here .. out of the 100's of true TV TR collectors Ive had dealings with over the years Most if not ALL never and WILL NEVER SEE OR USE THE NET FULL STOP.
Blimey rambled on for a bit then
but how about it ..
If these collectors knew that we could tranfer thier film to DVD and give it out free to those ppl who whould REALLY apreciate it .. then they may reconcider..
If not then people like me will get to see some of the shows that we only hear about.
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Post by Gary on Jun 4, 2005 11:12:05 GMT
Im sure you are right that collectors like this are out there in numbers holding missing programmes and indifferent to suggestions of loaning prints for archives to make copies. We only hear about the small number that do cooperate when campaigns like Treasure Hunt and MBW are started.Id hate to see them skipped though.But yes something must be done while they still exist.What though?
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 4, 2005 17:12:18 GMT
Iv'e been in this Game 20 years now and have seen prints. discs etc that I know for Certin are missing.. but the gentelmen who have them say and i quoute (remember this kiddies) "why the hell should I lend my prints out, I own em, and have for the best part of 40 years. They shouden't have got rid of em in the 1st place.. bloody fools. look no one is interested in this stuff anymore, hell i hevent seen em myself in 30 years.. If i lend them back then what.. theyd never be shown again. Id have to pay for em to be shipped there and back, nahhh bugger it, they can have em whem i'm dead" That's exactly what was said in the "Why return missing episodes?" thread. A lot of returned footage never sees the light of day, so I can understand the lack of enthusiasm. On the other hand, other people ask why they should return episodes if the BBC are going to commercially exploit them, so there's no winning. |
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Post by Ade Gregg on Jun 5, 2005 2:58:05 GMT
thats my point .. most of the people I spoke to would be interested in handing back prints if people like us could have copies 1st. they would never concider handing back anything if it would never see the light of day..
the most interesting part was when one of them told me that he had a large collection of programming from one of the ITV networks.. tried to make contact with someone who now owns the archive .. did so after a very very long time. the currant owners were not that interested in getting his stuff back. He insisted , got thier address sent (at his own expense) sent about 10 cans, about 2 years later he got half back with a note telling him that they were keeping half of em (they told him many time in negotiations that he'd get them ALL back) they diddnt want the other 5 (which suprised him A LOT) a yer or so later after many phone calls to get at least copies of his prints that they had kept.. he got word that they had lost them in the meantime..
this happened to a serious collector who related this story to many many many many other collectors (in fact Ive heard "chineese whispered" versions from some other contants i have made)
Its like the recent Z Cars find..
How many people got to see it.. (apart from MBW events)
and how many more will ever see it.. Im sure I wont (much that I'd like to) its a damm shame in this age of file sharing Divx files, dvd burining, that the finding of some classic telly means that it gout OUT of circulation,
I mean when bill the collector had it we had more chance of seeing it then..
Whats the point in getting exited when something else is found.. A Select few will see it and THATS IT
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Post by Stuart Douglas on Jun 5, 2005 12:39:34 GMT
thats my point .. most of the people I spoke to would be interested in handing back prints if people like us could have copies 1st. they would never concider handing back anything if it would never see the light of day.. the most interesting part was when one of them told me that he had a large collection of programming from one of the ITV networks.. tried to make contact with someone who now owns the archive .. did so after a very very long time. the currant owners were not that interested in getting his stuff back. He insisted , got thier address sent (at his own expense) sent about 10 cans, about 2 years later he got half back with a note telling him that they were keeping half of em (they told him many time in negotiations that he'd get them ALL back) they diddnt want the other 5 (which suprised him A LOT) a yer or so later after many phone calls to get at least copies of his prints that they had kept.. he got word that they had lost them in the meantime.. this happened to a serious collector who related this story to many many many many other collectors (in fact Ive heard "chineese whispered" versions from some other contants i have made) When things like that happen is it any wonder some ocllectors think 'why bother?' Was this a major TV company the collector was dealing with? I always think that if I find anything I'll stick a copy up on a bittorrent site before I send it away to the Beeb or whomever - that way a rough copy gets out to everyone and if the TV company cleans it up and puts it out on DVD those who want it can buy a better quality version. Stuart |
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 5, 2005 13:56:45 GMT
I always think that if I find anything I'll stick a copy up on a bittorrent site before I send it away to the Beeb or whomever - that way a rough copy gets out to everyone and if the TV company cleans it up and puts it out on DVD those who want it can buy a better quality version. Isn't that quite risky though? For example, you find an episode of Out of the Unknown, upload it to a BitTorrent tracker and return it to the BBC. Who is the obvious source of the illegal upload? I can see your point though and I completely understand. In fact, BitTorrent is the only way I've been able to see Dixon of Dock Green - I downloaded Pound of Flesh and Father in Law, watched them, loved them, deleted them. I also downloaded the Season 1 episodes of Doomwatch that haven't been released on DVD (though haven't got round to watching them yet). Perhaps in the future, as filesharing becomes more commericialised, the BBC will offer rare archive series available for download. |
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Post by Stuart Douglas on Jun 5, 2005 16:10:48 GMT
I always think that if I find anything I'll stick a copy up on a bittorrent site before I send it away to the Beeb or whomever - that way a rough copy gets out to everyone and if the TV company cleans it up and puts it out on DVD those who want it can buy a better quality version. Isn't that quite risky though? For example, you find an episode of Out of the Unknown, upload it to a BitTorrent tracker and return it to the BBC. Who is the obvious source of the illegal upload? I can see your point though and I completely understand. In fact, BitTorrent is the only way I've been able to see Dixon of Dock Green - I downloaded Pound of Flesh and Father in Law, watched them, loved them, deleted them. I also downloaded the Season 1 episodes of Doomwatch that haven't been released on DVD (though haven't got round to watching thme yet). Perhaps in the future, as filesharing becomes more commericialised, the BBC will offer rare archive series available for download. Fairly minimal risk I'd have thought - I can't see even the BBC trying to sue someone for something like that (not to mention the publicity from a potential lawsuit which would, I suspect, kill dead any chance of anyone giving them anything ever again). Stuart |
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 5, 2005 16:27:16 GMT
Fairly minimal risk I'd have thought - I can't see even the BBC trying to sue someone for something like that (not to mention the publicity from a potential lawsuit which would, I suspect, kill dead any chance of anyone giving them anything ever again). Good point! I really think the BBC should offer some kind of service for downloading archive material not deemed worthy of commercial release, perhaps a membership fee system (rather than a pay-per-download scheme), which would hopefully cover the cost of the service). Even a pay-per-download (prices presumably would be based on quality) scheme would be great. |
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 5, 2005 16:29:43 GMT
Hi Guys, I was thinking of some ways to "entice" Collectors to part with various epps of "whatever", How about this.. we get cracking on a project called Archive DVD for TV Or somthing We form a small Group of people who have the equiptment (like Me) to put Video Onto High Quality DVD It's an interesting idea, but a few questions spring immeditely to mind - would this be a free service (excluding the cost of discs), how would it be advertised and what about film reels (which seem to be the best source of missing material)? |
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Post by Martin Bryce on Jun 5, 2005 20:30:51 GMT
Hi Guys, I was thinking of some ways to "entice" Collectors to part with various epps of "whatever", How about this.. we get cracking on a project called Archive DVD for TV Or somthing We form a small Group of people who have the equiptment (like Me) to put Video Onto High Quality DVD Im talking 10mbps dvd's encoded with Procoder 2.. like I do.. What ? Create and distribute illegal copies of programmes to which you do not own the rights ? And exactly how does this not do the TV Companies any harm ? Or the artists involved in creating the originals ? What game ? Spelling ? Eh ? "The GenTelemen" - good pun ! ...and pray what did you get to speak to the other times ? Their doors ? This forum is becoming more and more like a Trading Post for illegal file-swapping etc. Do you gents really believe this is the way forward ? |
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Post by ade gregg on Jun 8, 2005 3:04:49 GMT
Bllody Ell... no wonder I gave up on this forum yonks ago.. If all you can do is have a go at my spelling and the legality of such a move.. go have a winge somewhere else.. you know you want to..
1 how many years have people been trading radio shows .. yes bbc ones.. with pretty much no prioblems from the bbc..
Ok don't beleive me look on ebay now and type goon show.. Most if not all those perry small mp3 files no better than Phone recordings for sale.. yep most RESTORED BY TED KENDALL AND RELESED BY THE BBC..
so there we go.. the beeb don't care if we have bootleged copies of "un-saleible" shows..
"What ? Create and distribute illegal copies of programmes to which you do not own the rights ?"
yep dam right boyo you got a better Idea to get "lost " material out of collectors.. so whats your idea then.. a search of the Internet.. hahahah Get real kid
"And exactly how does this not do the TV Companies any harm ? Or the artists involved in creating the originals ?"
and having them missing does what to the TV compaines?
Im not talking about a system where we just copy discs willy nilly just for a select group of people who may need these discs to try to get material back. or for people what just want to watch them..
With the advent of file sharing and bit torrent you'll find a hellva lot more copyright breeches made every single second of every day.. do you really think that "tv compaies" will care about a buch of train spotters duping 40 year old programs.
...and pray what did you get to speak to the other times ? Their doors ?
No seriosly I started recserching Missing Tv/Radio about
20 years ago and though contacts in the 16mm community I got to talk to loads of people about this and made some fine friedships unfortantly a few of these guys have passed away since and what i say is the truth.. just a bit hard to take .. isint it..
This forum is becoming more and more like a Trading Post for illegal file-swapping etc. Do you gents really believe this is the way forward ?
as i said b4 look up goon show, hancocks half hour radio shows on ebay/ emule. you'll find that all the hard work done by Ted Kendall/BBC are iligally sold every day..
"When things like that happen is it any wonder some ocllectors think 'why bother?' Was this a major TV company the collector was dealing with?"
Yes it was a major one An ITV one I'm let to belive.
the same collector also had bad dealing with the BBC at one point. after recturining prints to the BBC he was told that he couldent have any of them back. They were to valuble (culturaly) to send back to the collector he finaly got copies out of the beeb, very very badly dubbed timecoded VHS copies.. he was none too pleased and vowed never to have dealing with them again despite my protests.. OK yes this was years ago and things have changed for the better but try to tell that to someone who thinks he was short changed
"I always think that if I find anything I'll stick a copy up on a bittorrent site before I send it away to the Beeb or whomever - that way a rough copy gets out to everyone and if the TV company cleans it up and puts it out on DVD those who want it can buy a better quality version."
Yep thats exactly what I'd do and i have done this in the past with some of my radio finds..
the sad fact is that a lot of the more recent finds Stay in the archives for good and never get relesed.. and people like us who want to see em for research purposes have to pay $$$ for timecoded copies.
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Post by ethantyler on Jun 8, 2005 3:45:33 GMT
I saw the recent Hancock's Half Hour at UKNova (a BitTorrent tracker for British TV and radio - only things that haven't been released commericially) a few days ago. Lots of people are enjoying it for the first time and that's good to see. Hopefully, if it's released commercially, most of them will buy it too.
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Post by Stuart Douglas on Jun 8, 2005 8:44:31 GMT
Hi Guys, I was thinking of some ways to "entice" Collectors to part with various epps of "whatever", How about this.. we get cracking on a project called Archive DVD for TV Or somthing We form a small Group of people who have the equiptment (like Me) to put Video Onto High Quality DVD Im talking 10mbps dvd's encoded with Procoder 2.. like I do.. What ? Create and distribute illegal copies of programmes to which you do not own the rights ? And exactly how does this not do the TV Companies any harm ? Or the artists involved in creating the originals ? What game ? Spelling ? Eh ? "The GenTelemen" - good pun ! ...and pray what did you get to speak to the other times ? Their doors ? This forum is becoming more and more like a Trading Post for illegal file-swapping etc. Do you gents really believe this is the way forward ? What a total prat (pompous, inaccurate and woefully unfunny, all in the same post - it's like being in the Doctor Who forum). Oh, and there is no capital C in 'companies'. Stuart |
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Post by Martin Bryce on Jun 8, 2005 10:52:49 GMT
Well I thought this used to be a serious discussion forum about retrieving lost episodes of classic British Television, not a forum on how you can illegally copy and distribute television programmes amongst each other.
An activity that will ultimately have a detrimental effect on TV companies ever going to the bother of releasing official DVD's of what you so crave. The previous poster who claims that downloading will not affect future possible sales of this material is talking absolute rubbish.
Where have all the decent, informed contributors on this forum disappeared to ? Why does every topic seem to have to steer towards Doctor Who these days ?
What you should be pushing for is for the BBC to create a specialist outlet which would (for a price) release, in small numbers, specialist or archive DVD's aimed at the collector. Rather than a distributor like 'Network' who add to the price of a DVD with fancy packaging and extras etc. Didn't the BBC used to have a specialist label for releasing material to schools/colleges etc ?
Indeed, push the BBC to make pay-per-view downloads available. I for one would not mind paying for a legal download of Z-Cars etc. Which would also help the BBC gague the sort of material worthy of a fuller release.
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Post by James Kneale on Jun 8, 2005 11:42:54 GMT
Which would also help the BBC gague the sort of material worthy of a fuller release. "Gauge", I think you'll find. Honestly...  |
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