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Post by peterflint on Jun 9, 2012 18:34:51 GMT
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jun 10, 2012 8:42:15 GMT
It was broadcast.
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Post by auspeterk on Jun 12, 2012 3:31:44 GMT
i can tell you first hand what happens to rare material including abba , once you get it and give it to anyone.
about 2006 with the help of a friend we found a high quality copy 1976 complete australian tv special of abba, it was a very rare find along with 1976 Don Lane show clips. i thought at the time it would be a good tradding tool before it was useless after it spread around, one girl tradded a very low grade clips disc ,whitch was fine ,but what she did as soon as she got the disc was frow it on ebay on a 2 day sale where the tv special got about $200 then was relisted and got about the same amount again .then it got pulled,the point im making is ,sometimes a fan wants something for virtualy nothing ,then wants a lot of money for it.
lucky between the Don Lane show and Abba special , i got some trade value ,whitch i was happy with and a tv station got a copy too after they discared it 20 years earlier,but they wont give you broadcast footage if they can avoid it in exchange ,
australian bandstand is another show whitch i obtained from the 1960s , i gave it to olivia fan club for the tape trees for fans,one of these fans who got the disc for $5 tryed to sell the clips from the show to me for $20 without knowing i was the source of it. since that time i let loose a lot of clips that are rare whitch only i had from archives and tv stations worldwide ,many ened up on youtube and compile dvds for sale ,with many people taking crediit, but i learnt a lot from that ,so im sure the abba fans with uncirculated clips would have too , if you have stuff that is gold to you ,then dont list it ,if you do then people will want it the real rare stuff i have of olivia you will never see on you tube or odd discs.
totps sep 1980 with olivia i had a friend pull from bbc . i was treated very fairly with that i got about 5 trades out of it ,before it circulated to fans
that abba clip is out now so its not rare and will end up on numerous discs before to long for virtually nothing.
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Post by Gary Critcher on Jun 12, 2012 4:15:25 GMT
hmmmmmmmm.
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Post by dennywilson on Jan 11, 2013 18:36:19 GMT
Don't know what's worse - the PVL fellow,who flaunt what they have or the horders who don't!
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Post by Larry Dutch on Jan 13, 2013 9:28:22 GMT
Don't know what's worse - the PVL fellow,who flaunt what they have or the horders who don't! I think a lot of people don't realise that the source of a clip is frequently via an inside job ie, someone who works within an archive or TV station who would be potentially putting their job on the line by breaking copyright or their own employee contract by doing a favour for a friend at a big risk. Just because something exists doesn't mean that every person should have immediate "type it in to Youtube and be watching it in 30 seconds" uber-access. Sites like Youtube and Vimeo are the main reason why many collectors have shut up shop with trading and began withholding rarities from the great unwashed. Then there's the issue of the amount of effort it may have taken to find something - the snail mails, the emails, the relationship building often over many years of toil, just to extract 3 minutes of something never before seen. To then share all your amazing spoils with people who have made no such efforts but expect it will be spoon fed to them...well, sorry but you're not getting my stuff. At the heart of this is the nature of the enjoyment in collecting. I'm glad that there are known clips out there which aren't out there, if you get my drift. I can be as altruistic as the next person but I'm not sharing a rarity for the so-called greater good if someone gave me a copy under the strictest conditions not to let it out to anyone. I have shared some rarities with a select few fans of an artist and put the fear of god if they distribute beyond our intimate gathering. I'm not going to get anyone sacked just because I feel like being a hero on the www for 2 seconds to shout "that clip came from ME - I should be worshipped" even though it originated from someone else who put their neck on the line. OK, the PVL thing is a collection of off-airs so this example is not relevant in terms of not being an inside job. But...they taped it and took the trouble of doing it and keeping it all these years. Good on 'em if they have the only copy due to poor BBC policy. I frankly don't begrudge them making a few quid whatsoever. If the collection ultimately falls to rack and ruin - hopefully it hasn't or won't- well, that's fair enough. The collector paid for the tape stock themselves, the machinery to record it, maintained its survival over the years (maybe moving house several times, storing it in decent conditions etc etc). It's their property and they can do whatever they want with it. It's not any networks property but their own. (And before anyone asks, no I have nothing to do with the PVL though there are some tapes I wouldn't mind getting my hands on!) Sorry Denny Wilson - please don't take offence, this is not having a go at you or your remarks per se - it's just a bug bear of mine in general about this expectation amongst many on this site that everyone should be so idealistic with material. It's the responsibility of the filmmakers, the TV networks or the program producers to ensure the material survives. Of course on so many occasions, this hasn't happened - sad but easy with hindsight.But where it doesn't - all's fair in the private collecting scene. That said, I don't advocate making money where copyright is being broken but in the case of the cashed-up BBC re: lost TOTP material, I'm prepared to make an exception... No doubt I'm in line for criticism with some on here but...well life would be boring if we all agreed on everything. cheers LD |
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Post by nicadare on Jan 13, 2013 17:02:59 GMT
Don't know what's worse - the PVL fellow,who flaunt what they have or the horders who don't! The collector paid for the tape stock themselves, the machinery to record it, maintained its survival over the years (maybe moving house several times, storing it in decent conditions etc etc). It's their property and they can do whatever they want with it. It's not any networks property but their own. cheers LD Apparently not. Top of the Pops is still copyrighted and owned by the BBC even though they were foolish enough to wipe their tapes.  |
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Post by bleslie7 on Jan 15, 2013 0:52:53 GMT
No - the tape stock belongs to whoever had the foresight to tape it at the time. The contents only (ie Top of the Pops) is copyrighted by the BBC.
Thanks also for your input Larry - this just about sums it all up. I have made my own views on the worthiness of Youtube quite well known here.
Now if only the BBC were to transmit the recovered material themselves. If they do have the Abba clip, and the recovered Roxy Music clip ex 22/11/73 that was located in the BFI, then just show the things. They have proven they can show domestic videotape recoveries when they screened Slade "Coz I Love You" from the recovered 1971 show in that recent special.
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Post by markg on Jan 15, 2013 7:45:43 GMT
Well, with things like "See Emily Play" there could not be a TV broadcast as it's not good enough. That leaves adding it to an official DVD compilation which might never happen, or Youtube.
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Post by Alan Turrell on Jan 15, 2013 11:47:29 GMT
No - the tape stock belongs to whoever had the foresight to tape it at the time. The contents only (ie Top of the Pops) is copyrighted by the BBC. Thanks also for your input Larry - this just about sums it all up. I have made my own views on the worthiness of Youtube quite well known here. Now if only the BBC were to transmit the recovered material themselves. If they do have the Abba clip, and the recovered Roxy Music clip ex 22/11/73 that was located in the BFI, then just show the things. They have proven they can show domestic videotape recoveries when they screened Slade "Coz I Love You" from the recovered 1971 show in that recent special. Brett say the BBC never show the recovered material they might do but for arguments sake say they don't , would you be in favour of this being shown on youtube or never seeing it at all . |
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 15, 2013 11:57:16 GMT
The Abba clip is unique in one sense. The lady who runs The Abba fan group rounded up an amount in donations to purchase the Abba clip (I know the figure, btw). Her aim being that it could be shared by everyone and anyone, which it is. The BBC ARE aware it is on youtube. It's very different, as a story from many many other clips!
Kal have a copy, I have been made aware.
The BBC COULD QUITE EASILY GET A COPY, from whoever.
(and the Beeb have used off-airs before....more than once, trust me....)
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Post by Neil Megson on Jan 15, 2013 15:31:37 GMT
(Copied from my post on the other thread on this topic)
What would the legal situation be with the BBC ripping a missing clip from YouTube - presumably they own the copyright, so could they just download and broadcast it without asking whoever holds the recording ?
I know that in this case the BBC could obtain a copy if they wanted to, but what about missing clips which appear anonymously on YouTube ?
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Post by bleslie7 on Jan 16, 2013 1:06:20 GMT
No - the tape stock belongs to whoever had the foresight to tape it at the time. The contents only (ie Top of the Pops) is copyrighted by the BBC. Thanks also for your input Larry - this just about sums it all up. I have made my own views on the worthiness of Youtube quite well known here. Now if only the BBC were to transmit the recovered material themselves. If they do have the Abba clip, and the recovered Roxy Music clip ex 22/11/73 that was located in the BFI, then just show the things. They have proven they can show domestic videotape recoveries when they screened Slade "Coz I Love You" from the recovered 1971 show in that recent special. Brett say the BBC never show the recovered material they might do but for arguments sake say they don't , would you be in favour of this being shown on youtube or never seeing it at all . Hi Alan - sorry if I refuse to answer the question directly but I will add a third option to in order to answer the question - of course I would like to see the footage and I would never begrudge the thrill that genuine people (including you of course) that frequent this group would derive from seeing the footage, but I am afraid Youtube is frequented by a much larger audience who can download the footage for nothing - and in very good quality these days. If you post something on Youtube you are simply giving the footage away and giving the world an open licence to freely share it as many times as they see fit. So the third option is by any means EXCEPT Youtube and the other public video sharing sites. If you can guarantee that all people who use Youtube and viewing clips are doing so for their own personal use then fine - we all know this is not the case at all though. I find it amusing that so many TV stations simply resort themselves to ripping material off Youtube these days in order to present a few seconds of archival footage - must save them a lot of money!! And that is the bottom line these days. I am all for the idea of a user-pays model for archival footage (something like an on-line equivalent of itunes but with higher subscription rates for visual clips) and I think the world desperately needs something that is a genuine competitor to Youtube but with the best quality vision that is out there. |
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Post by bleslie7 on Jan 16, 2013 1:08:49 GMT
(Copied from my post on the other thread on this topic) What would the legal situation be with the BBC ripping a missing clip from YouTube - presumably they own the copyright, so could they just download and broadcast it without asking whoever holds the recording ? I know that in this case the BBC could obtain a copy if they wanted to, but what about missing clips which appear anonymously on YouTube ? Many TV stations are already doing this Neil - you see this nearly every day on Australian TV - not sure what the situation is in other countries. If some celebrity in the field of music passes away, then you can be guaranteed of some blurry Youtube vision appearing of the said artist on the news bulletin. |
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Post by Alan Turrell on Jan 16, 2013 10:58:13 GMT
Brett say the BBC never show the recovered material they might do but for arguments sake say they don't , would you be in favour of this being shown on youtube or never seeing it at all . Hi Alan - sorry if I refuse to answer the question directly but I will add a third option to in order to answer the question - of course I would like to see the footage and I would never begrudge the thrill that genuine people (including you of course) that frequent this group would derive from seeing the footage, but I am afraid Youtube is frequented by a much larger audience who can download the footage for nothing - and in very good quality these days. If you post something on Youtube you are simply giving the footage away and giving the world an open licence to freely share it as many times as they see fit. So the third option is by any means EXCEPT Youtube and the other public video sharing sites. If you can guarantee that all people who use Youtube and viewing clips are doing so for their own personal use then fine - we all know this is not the case at all though. I find it amusing that so many TV stations simply resort themselves to ripping material off Youtube these days in order to present a few seconds of archival footage - must save them a lot of money!! And that is the bottom line these days. I am all for the idea of a user-pays model for archival footage (something like an on-line equivalent of itunes but with higher subscription rates for visual clips) and I think the world desperately needs something that is a genuine competitor to Youtube but with the best quality vision that is out there. Hi Brett thanks for the reply i do agree with you about tv stations ripping material off youtube and also mobile phones i think it looks cheap to be honest and i see this quite often on tv now. |
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