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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Mar 16, 2012 10:20:55 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaHk1exmvqoThe Hollies perform 'Sorry Suzanne' on the ATV television programme 'This Is Tom Jones' broadcast during April 1969 ""27.04.69 with The Hollies, Pat Paulsen, Shani Wallis, Stevie Wonder (missing)"" The editions have been compared to the American clips and some, but not all scenes are from different camera angles. . There is a colour videotape version of this footage in existence, but this version is slightly different, featuring different shots and camera angles. This was because the show was made for both the U.S in colour and the United Kingdom in black and white. This is the UK version. Apparently around 19 minutes of the show has been found. From the Steve Birt Collection and kindly donated to the TDA. There's also an article about it on the new viewing site at www.timdisneyarchive.com that compares the two versions.
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Post by Alan Turrell on Mar 16, 2012 12:48:43 GMT
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Post by rdenham on Mar 18, 2012 21:42:49 GMT
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Mar 20, 2012 16:03:23 GMT
...and that clip looks very PAL whilst the link of Alan's looks very NTSC...
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Post by LanceM on Mar 20, 2012 18:24:59 GMT
I was thinking the same thing as well in regards to the 625/525 line signal differentials here. The difference is overly apparent in both picture and sound I would say here. Excellent quality for a 16mm print, and a stunning optical transfer I must say as well. Thank you Ray for the posting here in regards to this great Discovery.
Cheers, Lance.
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Mar 21, 2012 12:34:05 GMT
I've just been reminded that the full cloour version is on Reelin' in the Years' "Look Through Any Window" DVD...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 13:43:25 GMT
That's an NTSC (region 0) release though, Mark, so presumably it's the NTSC colour version that's used, rather than the PAL colour version (which I didn't even know about until it was pointed out here!).
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Mar 21, 2012 15:30:54 GMT
haven't got my copy to hand but I know that David Peck has the licence to sell clips from many European/PAL companies but as he's based in the US, has made NTSC masters from the original PAL masters...
just found the DVD! Certainly NTSC now but can't tell whether David has made a new NTSC Master from a PAL one, or whether it's always been NTSC...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 16:26:29 GMT
No, what I meant by PAL colour version was PAL colour performance version which (according to posts here) is not the same performance / camera shots as the NTSC and is something I didn't know about till now (I assumed the only colour take was the NTSC one). Or have I read that wrong?
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Post by Mark Tinkler on Mar 21, 2012 16:32:05 GMT
this is getting confusing! Yep, that's what I meant - rdenham's link looks like it was shot in PAL whilst Alan looks like it was shot in NTSC. I think we're on the same page...!
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Post by Peter Stirling on Mar 21, 2012 23:14:05 GMT
The UK versions were also shot in colour on gorgeous Philips PC60s any B/W version is a telerecording. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 9:36:22 GMT
...although there seem to be some b/w VT editions existing from the UK version, to confuse the issue further!
TITJ has long intrigued me as to what was actually shot for whom and what still exists of it all! I was (until now) assuming that the first series was made in b/w for the UK market but the fact of different PAL and NTSC colour performances of The Hollies appearance seems to put a question mark over this.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Mar 22, 2012 10:24:09 GMT
...although there seem to be some b/w VT editions existing from the UK version, to confuse the issue further! TITJ has long intrigued me as to what was actually shot for whom and what still exists of it all! I was (until now) assuming that the first series was made in b/w for the UK market but the fact of different PAL and NTSC colour performances of The Hollies appearance seems to put a question mark over this. IIRC The American DVD has the PAL/NTSC versions of the Stevie Wonder session comparing the different camera angles. I think?  ATV had completely converted to 625 by that time so there was no point in making 405 line material anymore. This looks like a UK 'cut' . www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvHkWl8HfrImarvelous eh? |
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Post by Tim Disney on Mar 22, 2012 16:32:28 GMT
I think my original article accompanying the black and white Hollies clip might have muddied the waters a bit on this subject. It was written very hastily as a form of holding page to accompany the clip and was based on general industry practice and a lot of assumption. The intention had always been to replace the article at a later date when more reliable information had been pulled together. I'm pleased to hear that the UK version still exists in colour somewhere. Quite bizarrely the colour UK version on You Tube had managed to evade my clip searches altogether, but has now been added to the article. As far as I know, the status of this series is still a bit up in the air. I can confirm that the clip I featured from the collection is most certainly sourced from a b/w film recording, so there was probably never a black and white VT version. The sound is much better quality than the distorted version presented too. It came out very clipped when uploaded to YT. From what I've read in this thread, it looks as though there was (and still is) both a PAL and NTSC master of this show in existence. The question that remains is why record two versions of the musical performances when some of the linking material is clearly from the exact same camera angle and performance on both masters? Wouldn't it have made more sense to down convert a PAL master to NTSC? As I understand it, ATV was fully equipped with standards conversion equipment at Elstree as their business was so heavily involved in the export of videotape originated programming for the U.S market. I know that standards conversions then were nowhere near as good as they are now, but quality couldn't have been an issue, as the shared material must have been recorded in either PAL or NTSC. There is an interesting artifact on the film recording that occupies the top quarter of the screen, and that is some sort of field flickering. This could have been a badly set up film recorder (not uncommon with ATV film recordings, I've seen some horrors) or maybe the whole show was made in NTSC and the film recording was made from an alternative PAL or NTSC master? It would be interesting to get to the bottom of the archive status of TITJ, and glean a few facts about the production methods used.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 16:49:45 GMT
It would be interesting to get to the bottom of the archive status of TITJ It would. I'd also like to know who physically holds the recordings. Presumably all the NTSC masters for the whole series exist while the PAL survival rate is lower (?). |
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ATV had completely converted to 625 by that time so there was no point in making 405 line material anymore.