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Post by Mark Tinkler on Dec 9, 2009 11:04:09 GMT
Bear in mind that back catalogues of tapes (i.e. all the master recordings) aren't necessarily uinder the same umbrella or even building as the paper or "other" archive...
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Post by Thomas Walsh on Dec 10, 2009 7:44:12 GMT
Hi guys. The E.L.O clip is widely available as part of the DVD-ROM feature of 'The Electric Light Orchestra' re-issue. It was an E.M.I promotional film. www.ftmusic.com/shop_elo1ukcd_cc.htmlT. Thanks Thomas. I thought it was an EMI promo but wasn't sure. Looks like it was shot by video on to film though as it has like a telerecorded look to it. Is the dvd-rom clip playable on normal dvd players or just computers? Dave Just computers Dave I'm afraid but I'd seriously urge everyone to pick this up as it's a beautifully put together DVD-ROM experience, truly wonderful. (Abbey Road) T.
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Post by davemachin on Dec 12, 2009 14:26:33 GMT
Thanks Thomas. I wondered if that was the case.
Dave
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Post by StevePhillips on Dec 16, 2009 23:15:54 GMT
Hi guys. The E.L.O clip is widely available as part of the DVD-ROM feature of 'The Electric Light Orchestra' re-issue. It was an E.M.I promotional film. www.ftmusic.com/shop_elo1ukcd_cc.htmlT. Thanks Thomas. I thought it was an EMI promo but wasn't sure. Looks like it was shot by video on to film though as it has like a telerecorded look to it. That clip is 100% video-to-film transfer, not shot on film. I, too, had assumed it was from a TV show of some kind.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 11:10:14 GMT
It does have a TV look to it because of this, yes. I think i'd assumed when I first saw it many years back that it was from a TV show of some kind. Perhaps it was a cheaper way of making promos in those days (i.e. use video cameras and vision mix on to tape then transfer to film to create a master). I've seen the odd few promos looking like this but don't know if it was because they were shot that way or if it's just a sales copy put on to film (as with e.g. the Russell Harty Wizzard clip of See My Baby Jive, which exists as two versions). I expect the VT original of 10538 is long gone but were there many promos shot in the same way at the time?
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Post by markboulton on Dec 25, 2009 12:03:32 GMT
Since I'm still waiting for my other half's family to show up so we can start our present-opening ceremony, I thought I'd quickly check in here. There was something I wanted to write in this thread a few days ago, but didn't get around to it.
I've found out via a couple of channels the rather startling state of affairs at one particular record company, EMI. As we know they were acquired by Private Equity partners Terra Firma a couple of years ago because they were in financial meltdown (still are) and since that time I had always assumed one of the first things they would do was get rid of any "non-essential" archive items.
I was heartened when I did a search and found a website called "EMI Archives Trust" (http://www.emiarchivetrust.org/) which appeared to be a separate organisation set up to ensure the long-term preservation of anything of historical interest. However my smile fell when I saw how long ago the website had last been updated. I think it was sometime in 2006.
I sent an e-Mail to them about a query regarding cataloguing in general in the 60s, 70s and 80s thinking they would be able to state whether they kept paperwork relating to their holdings. I received no response for weeks, then finally got a message from EMI Music. Sadly, they "held no information" which is what I expected from the current records division of the business - rather why I wrote to the "Archives Trust" in the first place. I can only gather from this that the Archives Trust no longer exists.
Anyway, whilst searching the rest of the interweb I came across a research paper written by someone (can't remember who, or the address, right now) stating categorically that when Terra Firma took over, a number of archive warehouses in Hayes had their contents "dispensed with" prior to demolition. More than likely this was largely written records, but (a) these to me are of as much interest as their media holdings, and (b) without these records, the location and rights agreements pertaining to their media holdings will become, like much of the BBC and ITV companies' 'vintage' rendered unusable because rights information that was 'to hand' for decades and could enable something to be (a) found and (b) cleared with minimum of fuss, will now require substantial research budgets to even begin to try and piece together these jigsaws, meaning that whatever remains can't be utilised. So much of what *does* survive will end up rotting away due to 'unknown rights situations' that no-one will have the interest/money to put back together.
I myself am angry that whilst our government could find endless billions to pump into the banks, they couldn't do the same for what I consider to be a national institution. Although EMI always has been a private company, to me they are the "BBC" of the recorded music world, and I think many people through the years have seen them that way. The least the government could have done was give EMI whatever money was needed simply to retain their archives (paperwork and media holdings) OR to offer to take them into the National Archives.
However, just like the situation at the BBC in 1977, it's yet again, right here in the 2000s, "too late" for hundreds of thousands of written records and dare I say it, in practical terms, hundreds (and probably thousands) or spools of audio and video tape.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2009 18:21:15 GMT
Pretty shocking to hear about things like this . It's not often common knowledge though and discovered in a matter of fact way. I agree with your view of EMI as the "music BBC".
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Post by Ian Watlington on Jan 8, 2010 5:47:52 GMT
On Laurence's point about adverts, I have often noticed that the agencies seem to keep off air recordings of these are you 100% sure they are off-airs? couldn't they just be dubs of the masters?
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Post by Richard Moore on Jan 8, 2010 9:56:52 GMT
I visited the Hayes archives a few year ago. Prior to the Terra Firma take over - the move to new archive buildings had just finished although the actual archive had not moved (this was purpose built and belongs to EMI completely) however their admin and research rooms did move to a new purpose built building - the lease on their old offices in the building next door having expired - they simply blocked up the doorway to the old building and moved into the new.
They did not throw anything away from the main archives and when Terra Firma took over, the Hayes archive was not touched.
Some of the older buildings nearby that used to belong to EMI (The old offices and pressing complex) may have held somethings but believe me EMI are now VERY serious about their archives (It make far more profit than new artists apparently) so I doubt anything of importance was lost. In anycase these were sold and moved out of long before Terra Firma took over.
The Archive Trust. I believe was set up before Terra Firma took over too and was I believe set up to mainly look after material of historical interest but no commercial value. Should EMI ever look to get rid of this material I'm sure it would be offered to the British Library. However EMI are fiercely proud of their heritage so I doubt anything will happen in the short term.
As for paper records - I have used a lot if these for research myself dating back as far as 1954 and whilst they don't have everything (Some things weren't kept in the first place), they have a vast number of items and files for EVERY artist who has appeared on any EMI owned label these include contracts, session logs, promotional material and market research. None of this has been ditched in recent years
Put it this way - whilst there are an awful lot of things that no longer reside in the archives - like many session tapes (and nobody regrets that more than EMI do in these days of major back catalogue sales) no final masters have ever been junked and their written archives are certainly in a much better state than Universal who HAVE junked a major amount of their written records.
Richard
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Post by Richard Moore on Jan 8, 2010 10:21:18 GMT
Just read your post again and thought i ought to correct this. when Terra Firma took over, a number of archive warehouses in Hayes had their contents "dispensed with" prior to demolition. EMI did not have and does have any other archives in Hayes other than the one that was purpose built in the 80's - No archives have been demolished! EMI's tapes used to be housed in four separate locations around London and the paperwork was probably split between Abbey Road's archives and the old EMI hayes offices - which they no longer own but have not been demolished. I have personally seen their archives which include Every finished Master tape (Audio & Video) Photographs Album Cover art Master discs (including a lot of metal stampers) dating back to 1897 Artifacts (Old tape machines, gramophones, the microphone used for the Kings abdication, Scot of the Antarctic's gramophone etc etc etc Written archives (that take up almost as much space as the tapes) I wonder where these people get their info from! Richard
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Post by markjhaley on Jan 8, 2010 15:34:09 GMT
My Grand-Dad had a record released on Parlorphone in 1948. We were staggered to see both sides available on iTunes and re-released on a CD 'Dance Hall Days'.
Still haven't had a royalty statement ;-))
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Post by johnstewart on Jan 8, 2010 18:07:11 GMT
Thanks Mark. What I've always wondered is how well archived are the film and video promos made by the record companies to promote records. Back in the seventies these sometimes were shown on Top of the Pops and if they were on video would fit in like they were made for the programme. I can remember ones for Cockney Rebel (Judy Teen), Elton John (Daniel) and ELO (10538 Overture). Earlier, the Stones had colour clips made by the record company (2000 Light Years From Home). My question is are these looked after as well as the master tapes of the music? I'd hope so as they are just another aspect to the artist's work. On Laurence's point about adverts, I have often noticed that the agencies seem to keep off air recordings of these. Sometimes they are used in documentaries and also filter out on the collecting circuit. Some go right back to the seventies and I have even seen the odd few from earlier. You would think that if the agencies were taping ads, there would be times when some other things like continuity and bits of programmes were caught on a tape. This is an area of missing television that has not been explored enough yet and even if a lot of the things are just duplicating what tv archives have, there may be the odd times when there is a rarity that makes it worthwhile. It's all fascinating to me. Dave Hi Dave - the TR of a tape original of 10538 is held at the BBC as it appeared on an edition of OGWT.
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Post by markboulton on Jan 8, 2010 22:57:41 GMT
Well Richard, I am heartened by your report of EMI's state of affairs, although I must assert that the article I read wasn't the product of some petty hoaxer or someone just making things up - it was quite a serious piece - unless of course it was very elaborately contrived and I was just too gullible - but it was written by someone who claimed to have been there in person, talking to curators of the various holdings in the "buildings to be demolished".
I'm surprised they keep their metal stampers - I thought they'd at least have got rid of those, thinking that as long as they had tapes, they didn't need them - after all, they don't have a record pressing plant anymore, and they don't even own their own CD duplication facilities now - CD production is outsourced (unless the media reports I read got this wrong too) - as vinyl had already been for several years before Terra Firma.
Anyway, back to the topic, I remember a Radio 1 documentary in 1992 called "Digging For Gold" which opened with Andy Kershaw being heard getting transported down to an underground vault (Goodge Street?) which he described as 'like a tube tunnel, but where the platforms would be, instead are miles and miles of shelves containing tapes and film cans. This is where most of the output of major record labels, film studios, and even television companies, ends up.' I often wondered if record companies' promotional videos/films ever ended up there and, if so, whether any paperwork would direct a modern-day researcher down there or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2010 9:52:50 GMT
I've always wondered what's exactly down the Goodge Street vaults myself, Mark. I know a friend of mine used to assist in doing some cleaning work down there and commented on all the masters that were visible down there from the other side of fenced grids!
See you at MBW today?
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Post by Richard Moore on Jan 11, 2010 11:07:21 GMT
Yes I believe most production of CD's and vinyl are outsourced - although EMI did have pressing plants in Holland at one point. I don't know if this is still the case though.
I perhaps phrased my last posting wrong - they have metal stampers for a large number of discs PRIOR to tape recording (So pre early 50's).
As far as Universal etc are concerned, I don't know how good their tape library holdings are, but i'm told their paper holdings are shocking - it doesn't help that so many companies that make up have amalgamated and that they have had so many owners.
Richard
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