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Post by robchapman on May 2, 2014 11:00:25 GMT
William, its on page 2 of Disc & Music Echo from September 2nd 1967 edition (with Brian Epstein on the cover the week he died, so my notes tell me.) I just found the reference from my Colingdale (RIP) research all them years ago.
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Post by williammcgregor on May 2, 2014 12:29:09 GMT
Thanks Rob, I've not got this edition in my collection,BUT I know the National Library of Scotland do! so watch this space and I'll post it asap!
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Post by Patrick Coles on May 3, 2014 10:10:11 GMT
Yes the actual sixties have largely been 're-written' by people who often clearly WERN'T there !
A mate of mine had a poster for JEFFERSON AIRPLANE in concert at the Fillmore (in massive lettering)....with 'the doors' - in tiny lettering as support band ! (which group had a film made about them later ?)
The Who - supported Hermans Hermits on a USA tour !
Jimi Hendrix....was support act...to The Monkees !
Watch the DVD of Cliff Richard & The Shadows - in 1965 - at the London Palladium...and hear all the girls screaming like mad for the supposedly 'unfashionable uncool' Cliff...whom The Beatles & 'The Beat Boom' had 'washed away' per some later writers...!! (Cliff's film; 'Wonderful Life' - 1964 - still had queues to get into the local cinema !)
The Rolling Stones....were followed in a poll winners concert by Adam Faith with The Roulettes - guess who stole the show ? (clue - he later played 'Budgie' !)
Amen Corner were MASSIVE around 1967-69...and remain still the biggest band to come out of Wales hit wise, so Mr. Peel's snooty attitude was somewhat 'up himself'
yet a slightly younger John Peel...later sheepishly admitted that he eagerly accompanied The Hollies on a sixties tour as Music press correspondent - JP also got some rather condesending 'flak' from The Byrds during their brief 1965 UK visit (and he never forgave their attitude towards the supposedly 'papal' Radio One guy...)
while later John Lennon at first claimed he 'couldn't remember' Peel...then said; 'Oh yes...is he BALD yet ?' (LOL)
Kenny Everett's Radio Caroline 'album of the week' in June 1967...was it 'Sgt Pepper' (surely ?)...no it was 'Evolution' by The Hollies (both albums released by EMI on the same day)
Ken Dodd '(Tears', 'The River', 'Eight By Ten' etc) , Frankie Vaughn ('There Must Be A Way'), Dean Martin ('Everybody Loves Somebody'), Solomon King ('She Wears My Ring'), even Des O'Connor' ('Careless Hands', 'Dick A Dum Dum' !) & of course Engy ('Please Release Me') all held 'Classic Bands' with 'Classic singles' firmly BELOW them in the sixties charts
short haired very 'un- Beatleish' fiery young Welshman Tom Jones in smart suit with tie & waistcoat, found that 'It's Not Unusual' to pile up hit after hit...many being ballads that were nothing like the beat groups style ('Till', 'Green Green Grass of Home', 'With These Hands', etc)
Gene Pitney and Roy Orbison were two shorter haired smart Americans whose idiom was untouched by the advent of the beat groups enjoying big hits including chart toppers until circa 1967-68
The Batchelors topped the charts with 'Charmaine', and Paul Simon's 'The Sound of Silence'....and had big hits with 'Diane', 'Marie', 'Whispering', 'Hello Dolly', 'I Wouldn't Trade You For The World', 'Walk With Faith in Your Heart', etc
fellow cheery Irish artist Val Doonican ('Hello There' !) advised us to; 'Walk Tall', plus chased 'The Elusive Butterfly', up 'Two Streets' while wondering 'What Would I Be ?' 'If The Whole World Stopped Loving'...while Val's TV show drew millions & his albums were on top of all the famous bands...including The Beatles in 1967 at one point !!
Rolf Harris also had a top TV show(s) - one for kids & one for adults ...plus enjoyed big hits with; 'Sun Arise', 'Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport', 'I've Lost My Mummy', and 'Jake the Peg' etc - some hits produced by George Martin - long before he too bought a 'Stairway To Heaven'
while even 'The Singing Nun', The Singing Postman, & 'Pinky & Perky' had top UK chart hits....
Acker Bilk had massive hits with 'Stranger on The Shore' (early sixties)...and 'Aria' in the seventies ! while Kenny Ball & His Jazzmen notched up a string of cheerful early sixties hits ('Samantha', 'So Do I', 'Someday You'll Be Sorry',Sukiyaki' & of course 'Midnight in Moscow'- Ken & the lads even charted with their cover of; 'When I'm 64' in 1967...!)
Horst Wotsit took 'A Walk in The Black Forest' up the charts....while Trini Lopez pondered; 'If I Had A Hammer',and Louis Armstrong topped the charts with 'What A Wonderful World'
Herb Alpert & his Tijuana Brass had MORE albums in the charts than anybody else...
Nana Mouskouri was outselling almost everybody worldwide ...
....as were 'The Black & White Minstrels' in the UK (shock horror gasp !) - hence so many of their HMV LPs in the charity shops now...
winner of 'top guitarist' section in many sixties UK music press polls was - Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix, Townshend, Harrison, ?.....no, normally it was: Hank B. Marvin (The Shadows)
Re The Girls: we ALL know Dusty Springfield was massive of course ....but SO was Kathy Kirby for quite a time in the sixties - and whose voice was the most powerful ? (listen to Kathy hold the high note for ages on 'You're The One' - pure opera !) while compare sixties pics of Kathy to see where Deborah Harry's later 'Blondie' look actually came from...
Dame Shirl....was belting out hits from the fifties & in her heyday in the sixties, as was Pet Clark (no title for her tho' - presumably as she largely lived outside the UK ?)
these ladies..plus Cilla, Lulu, Sandie & a few others largely forgotten now like Billie Davis, Patsy Ann Noble, Marianne Faithful, etc, ALL held their own against the classic bands during the sixties...while up to her tragic death far too young in 1966 fifties star Alma Cogan was still very much a 'name' showbiz figure even if her chart days were over after 1962...her TV show was top viewing & famed celeb parties in London drew everyone from stage, screen & records - from The Beatles to Michael Caine & 'The Saint' himself Roger Moore to visiting Americans like Danny Kaye etc
what was the BIGGEST selling new album of 1969 ? - 'Abbey Road' ?, 'Let it Bleed' ?, 'Hair' ?, Dylan's 'Nashville Skyline' ? or something by The Who or Hendrix, surely ??
- I believe it was actually; 'The Best of The Seekers' !! (Number one for ages & in the album charts for yonks !)
so if you think the sixties was all classic bands per the books later written by these 'know all' rock writers & media figures ...you're wrong & certainly WERN'T there !
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Post by robchapman on May 3, 2014 17:12:37 GMT
Plenty to get our teeth into there Patrick, although just to reiterate, my intention wasn't to point score or claim 'my music is better than your music' - which is tedious. More than anything it was to point out the sheer wonderfulness of all those bizarre mixed billings and juxtapositions of light (and heavy?) entertainment, and I speak as someone who sat on the school bus next to a bunch of girls who went to see Engelbert/Scott Walker/Jimi Hendrix/ and Cat Stevens on the same bill at Bedford Granada in 1967. meanwhile "A mate of mine had a poster for JEFFERSON AIRPLANE in concert at the Fillmore (in massive lettering)....with 'the doors' - in tiny lettering as support band ! (which group had a film made about them later ?)" and pretty dreadful it was too - one which virtually killed off Jim Morrison's credibility as a counter cultural figure over night. and doesn't everyone start off as a support band somewhere. I saw U2 supporting Iggy Pop in 1979 (and supporting Talking Heads in 1981) but y'know so what? "Jimi Hendrix....was support act...to The Monkees !" No he wasn't. The tour was called off at the last minute. Both sets of management saved face by claiming objections by the Daughters of America - but there were in fact no such objections. "Amen Corner were MASSIVE around 1967-69...and remain still the biggest band to come out of Wales hit wise, so Mr. Peel's snooty attitude was somewhat 'up himself'" Yes they were. True. Every girl in my class wanted to snog Andy Fairweather Low's face off. But bigger than the Manics? Are you sure. And Peel wasn't being snooty. He just couldn't remember the name of the record (and do you know who did the original version?) "- JP also got some rather condesending 'flak' from The Byrds during their brief 1965 UK visit" This was when Peel was a dj in San Bernadino right? Kenny Everett's Radio Caroline 'album of the week' in June 1967...was it 'Sgt Pepper' (surely ?)...no it was 'Evolution' by The Hollies (both albums released by EMI on the same day)" I'm well aware that Kenny Ev went in for a great deal of astral traveling during this period, but teleporting himself onto Radio Caroline was a gift too far. He worked for Radio London.........and by the time Sgt Pepper came out he was working for the BBC Light Programme, where with Chris Denning he presented a Where Its At special on the album in May 1967. I have a studio quality recording. more to follow. lights blue touch paper and retires..............
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Post by markjhaley on May 3, 2014 18:38:18 GMT
"Jimi Hendrix....was support act...to The Monkees !" "No he wasn't. The tour was called off at the last minute. Both sets of management saved face by claiming objections by the Daughters of America - but there were in fact no such objections." I did several of the Monkees reunion tours back in the 80's and all 3 guys (Nesmith turned down the offer) confirmed that Hendrix did tour with them as an opening act. Not for very long, just over a week. There's a reference to it here. ultimateclassicrock.com/jimi-hendrix-joins-monkees-tour/
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Post by robchapman on May 3, 2014 19:08:08 GMT
Thanks Mark. I stand corrected, and about the name of the organisation too. The Daughter of the American Revolution - although I think I'm right in saying that there was no objection from them - it was just a ploy from both sets of management hatched in order to get out of an unworkable situation.
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Post by williammcgregor on May 3, 2014 20:21:03 GMT
This is from the NME week ending July 29th 1967
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Post by Richard Marple on May 3, 2014 20:57:23 GMT
While the film wasn't that good (I've still to see it!) in the early 1990s Jim Morrison posters seemed to be common, bought by the sort of teenagers who would otherwise have bought a Che Guevara one.
As their songs were getting some airplay I started to check out the many songs in my Dad's collection.
Bakc in 1967 my Dad bought a 1st edition single of Light My Fire, only to sell it a bit later when their self titled album came out, being a cash strapped student at the time.
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Post by Tony Walshaw on May 4, 2014 7:48:43 GMT
Did I say ‘a piece?’ Sorry, as William and one or two others on here already know, I meant a whopping great book about psychedelia, which is due out next year. I’ve gone the scenic route and part of that entails setting the scene in which much of the music was seen and heard on the BBC – which entails a bit of myth busting of course, hence the dig at all those flimsy histories from people who weren’t there. Wishing you well with this interesting project Rob. Hoping that it comes to fruition, and keep us posted when it becomes available.
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Post by robchapman on May 4, 2014 8:12:38 GMT
While the film wasn't that good (I've still to see it!) in the early 1990s Jim Morrison posters seemed to be common, bought by the sort of teenagers who would otherwise have bought a Che Guevara one. As their songs were getting some airplay I started to check out the many songs in my Dad's collection. Bakc in 1967 my Dad bought a 1st edition single of Light My Fire, only to sell it a bit later when their self titled album came out, being a cash strapped student at the time. this is true about 80s/90s teens and there's no accounting for taste - but the film is still pap. trust me! my favourite bit is where Kilmer comes in through the window at a party and says "hey man I have no need for doors." more great dialogue available on request. give me slade in flame any day. ps - I once taught an American student who said she liked Hair. I told her I had the original 1969 cast soundtrack album. "Oh was it a play as well?' she said. "I meant the 1979 film " so yeah you get your information where you can I guess. And re your NME Hendrix/Monkees scan William I see that Lynne Randell was on that tour as well, so the billing just got even more better/bizarre. She did Stranger In My Arms, a big northern soul tune and one of the great pieces of 60s girl pop. You Tube it. www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lynne+randell+stranger+in+my+arms
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Post by Patrick Coles on May 4, 2014 10:05:02 GMT
Re Kenny I meant Radio London not Caroline - the strange Hollies song 'Lullaby To Tim' was Kenny's fav song on 'Evolution' and the album WAS his 'album of the week'
Yes as others have pointed out and verified Jimi Hendrix DID indeed support The Monkees - and 'died a death' - Mickey Dolenz even apologised to Jimi re the hostile reaction the fans gave him...Mickey has said that !
Re Amen Corner I was actually referring to them remaining the Biggest band from Wales in the sixties ....I don't think The Manics were selling many records back then were they ?
yes of course all artists start off supporting other acts - but then some music writers in retrospect conveniently 'forget' just who were the most popular or successful acts back then at the time, and create a totally inaccurate impression of the times don't they...?
Re The Byrds, maybe it wasn't actually in the UK BUT John Peel certainly DID get 'flak' from them as I once heard a very irate JP on the radio years later angrily bite back re the obnoxious attitude of the 'visiting Byrds' towards him, as he put it (thus I assumed he must have met them here in the UK not over in the USA at some point - tho' maybe it was a bit later on when he featured them on his radio show 'Night Ride' circa 1969 ?)
while I never said anyone's music was 'better than' either, my favs WERE the classic bands (!)- but the sixties have been taken out of all proportion by many writers since with some acts given far more kudos and acclaim than others who were equally popular if not even more so...plus a vast amount of 're-writing' has gone on to 'airbrush out' alot of mega selling artists of the sixties too, including many artists who appealed to an entirely different record buying public back then than that of the targeted group of latter day music writers, but artists who nevertheless were chart regulars in the sixties, often largely outselling the pop groups and more 'fashionable' acts that often get massively over hyped in retrospect these days
remember even The Beatles had ALOT of critics then too - not just from elders but even among the younger people - (John Lennon refers to; 'or our latest electronic noise depending on whose side your on' in his intro on 'Big Night Out' in 1965 - shown in the 'Anthology' show) and this has been 'airbrushed out' alot in retrospect...we are encouraged these days to believe that The Beatles WERE the sixties - and in some cases that they started the Mersybeat scene thing all by themselves, when the reality is somewhat different
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Post by robchapman on May 4, 2014 11:01:42 GMT
This is all starting to get very off topic now, so I'll just add these comments to Patricks thought provoking thread and be done.
"Gene Pitney and Roy Orbison were two shorter haired smart Americans whose idiom was untouched by the advent of the beat groups enjoying big hits including chart toppers until circa 1967-68"
good call on both counts but you missed the best example - a group who went on having hits into the mid-seventies without ever bending to the English Invasion or any other trend. The Four Seasons
"The Batchelors topped the charts with 'Charmaine', and Paul Simon's 'The Sound of Silence'....and had big hits with 'Diane', 'Marie', 'Whispering', 'Hello Dolly', 'I Wouldn't Trade You For The World', 'Walk With Faith in Your Heart', etc"
Funny you should mention the Bachelors. Everyone forgets they had big hits in the USA too. I don't know if anyone here has ever read it but there is a really good book by Michael Bryan Kelly called The Beatle Myth, where he rips the shreds out of the idea of the English invasion. For instance he finds something like 150 other examples of US records that had the phrase 'yeah yeah yeah' in them before the Beatles She Loves You. (an impressive act of anorakdom that is worthy of respect - a man after my own heart.) he talks about all the other major British acts that sold just as well, if more briefly, than the Beatles, including Pet Clark, The DC5, Herman and yes the Batchelors. He mentions that the Beatles haircut was being worn by surfers three years before the English invasion. etc etc etc. Myths about the English invasion is definitely another topic for another time but Kelly's book is as good a place as anywhere.
"fellow cheery Irish artist Val Doonican ('Hello There' !) advised us to; 'Walk Tall', plus chased 'The Elusive Butterfly', up 'Two Streets' while wondering 'What Would I Be ?' 'If The Whole World Stopped Loving'...while Val's TV show drew millions & his albums were on top of all the famous bands...including The Beatles in 1967 at one point !!"
Yes, and never forget that the album that finally knocked Sgt Pepper off the number one spot (aside from the Sound of Music soundtrack) was Val Doonican Rocks But Gently Vol 2. Its that Vol 2 that's the killer isn't it?
"Ken Dodd '(Tears', 'The River', 'Eight By Ten' etc) , Frankie Vaughn ('There Must Be A Way'), Dean Martin ('Everybody Loves Somebody'), Solomon King ('She Wears My Ring'), even Des O'Connor' ('Careless Hands', 'Dick A Dum Dum' !) & of course Engy ('Please Release Me') all held 'Classic Bands' with 'Classic singles' firmly BELOW them in the sixties charts".
Where's Leapy Lee? Don't forget the Lee, man! This man hung out with hardened gangland criminals. He knew the Piranah Brothers personally and yet he had a top 10 hit with the most tweety facile love song of all time, Little Arrows.
Respect.
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Post by Tony Walshaw on May 5, 2014 6:54:26 GMT
Pete Murray introduced the Jimi Hendrix Experience, and instead of the introductory wah-wah tones of Burning Of The Midnight Lamp we were treated to 30 seconds or so of The Alan Price Set’s ‘The House That Jack Built’. “Uh, I don’t know the words to that one man,” said an amused looking Hendrix, before the camera hastily switched back the panic stricken host and the correct backing track was cued in for Hendrix to mime to. If there had been any surviving footage of this incident it would be a You Tube staple and would be guaranteed to be shown on blooper programmes and nostalgia shows for the rest of time. This mishap emphasises the perils of the 'one-take TV' of the time. It is one of several instances where TOTP did not go to plan, others being Procol Harum's "wrong words" performance of 'A Whiter Shade Of Pale', the erratic live vocal of The Foundations, and Alan Freeman referring to Dave Davies as 'Ray'. We of course understand the work pressures that Gary Brooker was under in the summer of 1967, but the average viewer (and TV executive) does not, he finds it bad practice and annoying. Television had an edge - it was generally professional, but when watching old clips you get the impression that it was a fine line in transmitting a faultless show, and veering off into difficulties. In some ways you can see why some people, e.g. embarrassed band members, management or record company, might have wanted footage to be lost . Equally, those higher up the chain in the pragmatic BBC might have thought "we can do without this, we can always get someone else in". Which was probably the case with John Peel: Or there was the time when John Peel made his one ill fated appearance in 1968, mumbled something along the lines of “there’s no Captain Beefheart or Tyrannosaurus Rex tonight. You’ll have to wait till Saturday for those. Meanwhile here are Amen Corner with the shape me bend me thing". For which he was carpeted I believe! Amen Corner were MASSIVE around 1967-69... so Mr. Peel's snooty attitude was somewhat 'up himself' I recall that when John Peel finally returned to TOTP in 1982, he was interviewed and said to the effect that "I was on once in the early days, but I forgot the name of Amen Corner and was never asked back". He of course became a regular presenter in the 80s, and formed a memorable partnership with David Jensen (as per forum member Syd Vliet's avatar ). Funnily enough, you'd think Peel would not dislike Amen Corner - admitted they might have been lightweight for him, but their take on The Beatles 'Get Back' was as different as The Move's (original) version of 'Hello Susie'.
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on May 6, 2014 13:35:02 GMT
Even though I'm known for my liking of 'classic' rock, glam and ""new wave"", I get very annoyed when people suggest that the 60's (and just as much the 70's) were full of the groups and artists that weren't MOR or poppy.
I hate the rewriting of history.
Enough of that, though - let's get back to Crackerjack.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2014 15:37:29 GMT
Or there was the time when John Peel made his one ill fated appearance in 1968, mumbled something along the lines of “there’s no Captain Beefheart or Tyrannosaurus Rex tonight. You’ll have to wait till Saturday for those. Meanwhile here are Amen Corner with the shape me bend me thing". Where does the info on this come from, out of interest, or is it just myth that has been passed on as Chinese whispers?
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