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Post by andrew martin on Jan 13, 2005 21:25:55 GMT
The compilation reel is not missing - in fact there were two 2" tape copies of the compilation, which are now at the NFA, the BBC hold D3 copies of both copies of the compilation...
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Post by CliveUK on Jan 14, 2005 7:00:45 GMT
So why with the colour compilation reel being so readily available were TOTP2 relegated to using the B&W TR's of all these clips over the past 4-5 years ?
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Post by Laurence Piper on Jan 15, 2005 14:56:15 GMT
Yes - the use of the inferior t/r clip copies was one of the reasons for believing it had disappeared. I remember when I was working up at the BBC last year, it was one of the items that couldn't be located for viewing when it was called up. This seemed to confirm that it had gone AWOL. Good that it hasn't though.
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Post by Mark Kerridge on Jan 15, 2005 19:49:42 GMT
Didn't a similar fate befall The Shadows "Don't Make My Baby Blue" from 12/8/65 (listed as existing in the Database). A clip on B/W VT was shown on the 25th Anniversary programme, but the whole performance seemingly disappeared and hasn't been seen since. It was certainly never shown on TOTP2.
Andrew, if you're reading this, can you enlighten us as to whether it is still missing or has now resurfaced - thanks!
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Post by andrew martin on Jan 16, 2005 14:52:44 GMT
"Don't Make My Baby Blue" by the Shadows still exists, in that the 25th anniversary TOTP still exists, as do numerous inserts spools for it. I don't know any reason why TOTP2 never showed it...
I'm also not sure why people kept using b/w clips where colour versions existed - except that they needed to do a little more research perhaps?! The BBC's computer system is very much a work in progress (it logs more material than any other catalogue in Europe, I think I'm right in saying), and often it can be a case that where one researcher would know of the existence of something, and be able to find it, another less experienced one might not. In the case of the 1970 colour clips, this should now be fixed - but it's always annoying when these avoidable errors happen.
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Post by Mark Kerridge on Jan 16, 2005 17:18:02 GMT
Thanks for the confirmation Andrew - so the whole of the Shadows performance is still around then? Good news - it would be better still if we get the opportunity to see it - in full!!
Presumably the reason that the TOTP2 production team couldn't get their hands on it would be similar to the reasons why they were using B/W T/R copies of 1970 performaces rather than Colour VT - i.e. depends on who was looking for it and their level of awareness as to what existed - shame they didn't refer to you at the time!!
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Post by CliveUK on Jan 17, 2005 12:38:33 GMT
[quote author=Guest-andrew martin link=board=totp&thread=1099574734&start=20#1 date=1105887164 I'm also not sure why people kept using b/w clips where colour versions existed - except that they needed to do a little more research perhaps?! [/quote]
Thanks for the information, this is good to know ! I guess when searching for 'Jethro Tull - Witches Promise' the Database just defaulted and found the B&W TR's from the TOTP edition itself rather than the clips which existed on the colour compilation tape which as you say may have needed a little bit of extra searching for.
I wonder if it is just the luck of the draw that these earliest colour clips from TOTP just happened to exist on both B&W TR and Colour VT, whilst nothing much exists on either format for anything else from this era.
I also wonder if it is due to the survival of these few clips that bands like Badfinger and Jethro Tull still maintain a sizable following. I know that it was seeing the Colour clips of both these bands on the 'Rock and Roll years' that got me interested in them and started collecting.
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Post by Laurence Piper on Jan 17, 2005 17:24:18 GMT
Actually, the colour clip compilation reel is just as easy to locate on the BBC database as the b/w TOTP editions - which made it all the more puzzling that it couldn't be located for a viewing when requested.
Re: The Shadows performance. Does this exist in full though, Andrew? The clip used in the TOTP retrospective is just an excerpt. You didn't quite make it clear if this was ALL that survived or whether the whole performance was there too.
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Post by andrew martin on Jan 17, 2005 19:06:03 GMT
It does exist in full: the TOTP 25th anniversary clip was taken from a comp tape logged under The Rock 'n' Roll Years, it's part of the incomplete episode that is the source of the well-known VT clips of The Byrds, Jonathan King, Sonny and Cher etc - I think it's 30/6/66? The Shadows clip has Jimmy Savile's intro and outro, the clip itself is obviously a pre-recorded insert, JS mentions the group are in Portugal!
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Post by Richard Hunter on Jan 18, 2005 9:20:31 GMT
I know this has been mentioned before but somebody at the Beeb's marketing Dept. needs to put all those loose clips from the 60's & early 70's together and release a compilation DVD of it all.
I would much rather have purchased that DVD than the compilation DVD that came out in Novemebr 04 showing clips that we have all seen umpteen times before.
I wouldn't have thought it would be too difficult a task but hey we are talking about TOTP here. If only we were Dr Who fans (written very tongue in cheek).
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Post by andrew martin on Jan 18, 2005 10:13:53 GMT
I wish they would Richard! By the way, the TOTP that exists in part is from 19/8/65, nothing to do with 1966 (as I'm sure all fans realised). The Byrds and Shadows performances on it were repeats, first shown on 12/8/65.
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Post by Pete Seaton on Jan 18, 2005 10:51:15 GMT
I really think we need some sort of TOTP Appreciation Society (which i attempted to form in 2003)
if Dr Who fans (me also) can get this stuff out, so can we
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Post by John Miller on Jan 21, 2005 15:19:54 GMT
oh...and 'The Witch' by the Rattles as a nasty VT scratch halfway through which may have put the producers off using this clip. I guess though they wanted to go for the popular angle, most people will have heard of 'Free' ...although to be petty, that Sandie Shaw rehersal clip is not a 'true' TOTP clip, as it was never shown at the time, only 20 years later did it turn up. But does anyone know the story behind it ? Surely a TOTP rehersal didn't normally get TR's did it TOTP2 used the VT 'witch' around 1995 as I have it off air. At that point it wasn't scarred, or at least not the segment used. There is also a different clip with audience dancing to it and show end credits. This was a missing edition sequence posted on the net which I understand the BBC now has a copy of. The Sandie Shaw rehearsal was recorded by an individual technician. There is a known quoted name in connection to this, he was quoted on BBC4s 'Missing believed wiped' documentary. That person was making recordings of performances for individual reasons by personal taste judgement. The probable reason for the rehearsal T/R lies in the archiving policy on the show at that time. Dr Who magazine quoted that when the DW production office contacted the TOTP office for clips of the Beatles to use, they were told, regarding complete shows, or the insert VTs these were wiped soon after transmission. This was Spring 65. The dept still had the VT for 'ticket to ride' as that was then in recent use. A 1 min excerpt from the opening was transferred at a telecine point to film for the Dr Who team to use. TOTP is quoted as being live at the beginning of its run. At that point, I suspect the only or main material held was in the form of VT insert reels similar to those recently found in the BBC library from 1974-75. These consist of 4 or 5 booked acts bridged sometimes by DJ links or with a TOTP film edited into the sequence. Such material could be retained for reuse in Xmas shows after which it was probably junked. This reasoning might explain the 1965 VT reel that exists. The technician probably had seen a previous rehearsal of the Sandie Shaw number or was aware in advance of the booking. They were also probably familiar that the show was either not off air recorded or VT insert reels junked after a specified period. They may have been touched by Shaws pensive and slightly nervous run through and decided they wanted to capture it. Aware the actual take was not booked for recording they were probably able to sneak in a recording on sideline back up equipment (T/R film facilities) whilst the main days productions were allocated to the priority VT channels. Thats my theory anyway.
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Post by William Martin on Jan 22, 2005 15:01:34 GMT
I think there is probably a good deal more out there
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John Stewart Miller
Guest
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Post by John Stewart Miller on Jan 26, 2005 22:59:18 GMT
im pretty sure the rare bird clip was shown on uk gold i remember it very well feb 70?i think. ;D It is Feb, or Jan 70. A lot of clips from the existing editions from then (Edison lighthouse, Dave Clark five) have been shown (BBC). I think one of the prog bands was shown briefly somewhere but think it was Blodwyn pig. One of the U.K. gold repeats had Atomic Rooster who are very similar (same genre and similar appearence). I tend to half think you may be right, but can't put my finger on where the clip appeared. I did make a point of regularly taping TOTP2 on timer from around 1995 on, but missed some. I copied the bits I wanted then wiped the originals.
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