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Post by William Martin on Sept 1, 2004 16:09:05 GMT
which 1960s/70s tv shows had live music, blue peter, beat room etc and when did totp stop using miming, also were any vocals live with recorded music on totp at this time.
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Post by H Hartley on Sept 1, 2004 22:09:31 GMT
you would probably have to delve into the history of the musician' union for some of the answers. In the case of TOTPs for example.under union rules, a certain quota of artists had to be backed by the in house band , which helped feed a few hungry bbc musicians but did nothing for the perofrmance... according to many..
The other problem with this era is the fact that it was an adventurous time for recordings,which enabled those with dubious singing qualities to make good records.Much of a pop record had been processed electronically (speed up. slowed down, over dubbed , spliced from a 100 takes etc) therefore it was impossible to reproduce this sound live ,and explains why people like Cilla Black almost certainly mimed and David Bowie could sing/strum away acoustically on Space Oddity, but could not do the spectacular record version on TOTPs. O f course strong singers just need a music backing tape.
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Post by CliveUK on Sept 2, 2004 7:48:24 GMT
In the case of TOTPs for example.under union rules, a certain quota of artists had to be backed by the in house band , which helped feed a few hungry bbc musicians but did nothing for the perofrmance... according to many.. This is why I truly respect TOTP above many other music shows. The technical ability of Johnny Pearson and the TOTP Orchestra is incredible when you realise that they had to create an authentic sounding backing track to the current hits week after week and with very little rehearsal time. These semi-live performances add so much to a programme which could have been just another collection of mimed performances. Compare performances between Disco and TOTP and the TOTP performances win through each time for me. The added 'live' aspect and the slightly different arrangements re-invigorates the studio recordings which I got bored of years ago.
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Post by CliveUK on Sept 2, 2004 9:18:22 GMT
Adding to this, I believe the Musicians Union rules still applyed to TOTP into the early 80's, I remember reading that TOTP got their knuckles rapped in the early 80's when the Musicians Union made a spot check on the TOTP rehearsals and were annoyed to find that all performances were mimed whilst the BBC were claiming to be using 'live mikes'
In many occasions the backing track by the house band was recorded before-hand and the artiste just sung along with it come the TOTP performance. I also believe that some bands actually re-recorded their own backing track specifically for TOTP (rather than using Johnny Pearson and his band)
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Post by H Hartley on Sept 2, 2004 13:47:21 GMT
I agree Clive. Those TOTPs performances with the BBC rocking band now seem quite fresh and original.
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Post by Dale Rumbold on Sept 2, 2004 16:00:56 GMT
In many occasions the backing track by the house band was recorded before-hand and the artiste just sung along with it come the TOTP performance. I also believe that some bands actually re-recorded their own backing track specifically for TOTP (rather than using Johnny Pearson and his band) It was certainly reported in the music press during the 70s (yes, I'm that old) that bands were NOT allowed to mime to the records : if they wanted to mime, they HAD to re-record the entire track at the TOTP studio beforehand. I don't know for how long a period this 'rule' applied.
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Post by William Martin on Sept 4, 2004 13:49:06 GMT
thanks for the info ad input, keep it coming
looking at some of the totp2 archive clips it certainly seems as though some of the artists had live vocals (foundations now that I'VE FOUND YOU, john lennon instant karma etc)
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Post by CliveUK on Sept 6, 2004 8:50:19 GMT
I've always wondered if The Hollies 'Gasoline Alley Bred' performance was live or not. I'd always assumed it was until hearing the album track which sounds almost exactly the same as the TOTP performance.
I spent some time over the weekend going through some old TOTP performances and I came to the conclusion that many of the 70's performances did seem to be sort of live. There seemed to be two types of performances those that were sung live on transmission, ie live mike with backing, witness a remarkable, moody, slowed down version of Kate Bush performing 'Wuthering Heights' really great stuff.
There also seemed to be another style of performance (as highlighted by Dale) where the track seems to have been re-recorded and is different from the album track - see 'Airport' by 'The Motors' where although they do not seem to be singing live (the two guys at the front are laughing too much for a start) there is a slight difference in the mixing and arrangement compaired with the album track.
As a rule, at least in the 70's, it seemed to be if the performer was a solo artist or did not have their own backing band then the TOTP House band would provide their services. If the performer was a band in their own right then they were allowed to re-record their own backing track before hand. Again this supports the evidence provided by Dale previously.
By the early 80's this seems to have changed, Adam and The Ants, Wham, Gary Numan etc all seem to be either miming or singing live to a backing track identical to their album release.
Either way, I can't but help admire all these performers who had to go through this rigmarole to get their hits performed TOTP.
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Post by William Martin on Sept 6, 2004 15:11:49 GMT
as you say there seem to be 2 types the totaly mimed and live vocals, up to 1966 at least totp was mimed (please tell me if I'm wrong) but from about 67 there seems to be some live vocals, Peter Sarstedt definitly had live vocals on his 69 number one, and Kate Bush seems to be live (it sound like she gets short of breath at one point)
I can understand the need for miming in the early days of live or recorded as live broadcasts, I seem to remember reading that the union imposed re-recording happened sometime in 1967, but when was the earliest full live performance that any of you are are of excluding pop goes the sixties
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Post by CliveUK on Sept 7, 2004 6:09:34 GMT
Live mike performances go back to at least 1965 judging by the surviving evidence of "Hermans Hermits - Just a little bit better" His voice warbles as he tries not to fall off his mobile platform. Also Jonathan Kings 'Everyones gone to the moon' from the same year seems to be a completely live performance with the TOTP orchestra backing. JK seemed to do all his TOTP performances with Johnny Pearson providing backing and gave us a rare chance to see them in person during one of his performances of 'Una Paloma Blanca' in '75
It would have been more natural for early performers to sing live rather than mime as that is what they were used to. It was only with the likes of Beach Boys, who could not reproduce their complex studio sound in the confines of the TOTP studio, that miming started to become more common. I would guess that it was at this point when the Musicians Union stepped in and started demanding more 'live' performances.
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Post by William Martin on Sept 9, 2004 16:25:39 GMT
good job paul jones mimed to "come tomorrow", painful to watch. how did the whole miming thing work, did they kill the studio mikes, I'm thinking of extraneous noise and miming to drums must be difficult without making any noise, is this the cause of those episodes with mute continuity?
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Post by Kev on Sept 9, 2004 16:29:45 GMT
It's funny watching the miming as the drumsticks are never anywhere near the drums.
They often placed mats on them to dull any noise.
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Post by William Martin on Sept 9, 2004 16:42:21 GMT
I always look at the bass player, usualy strumming! with unchanging fingure postions, on the Equals "come back" there is a bass on the backing but no-one is playing one, same for the hollies "just one look" don't blame them realy, the bass can be hard in the fingers
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Post by CliveUK on Sept 10, 2004 5:57:45 GMT
The Hollies - 'Just One Look' If this is the one shown on 'Sounds of the 60's' then I suspect that the soundtrack we hear does not belong to the original print.
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Post by William Martin on Sept 10, 2004 12:54:01 GMT
yes I think you'r right, although the track may be the same I think it was from a tape or cd as the optical sound track for these early clips is very bad
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