Schools Programmes

[Ian]

Does anyone know exactly how intact or otherwise the schools programme archives are? There are no Kal guides on the subject and each television company seems to vary as regards how much of anything it keeps. I am assuming that all schools programmes from recent years have been retained (from the 1980s onwards) but what still remains from the 1960s and 1970s? Any help and info would be useful.

[John Miller]

NFA have a selection of BBC early 'scene' I believe 68-69. One of the series is complete bar around 4 or 5 (entry 'the leaves that are green' using the Paul Simon song title doesn't exist). Think the kaleidoscope team may be able to help here. While I can think of it, the earliest ITV programme I've seen is 'transport & communication' 1959. A religious instruction programme from 1964 BBC exists. On the net, possibly 'tv ark' is a sequence showing the BBC pie chart from 1967 followed by titles of 'maths today'. Many shows were shot on film. Thus the inserts for 'Boy from space' were re edited into 80s editions of 'look & read'. I recall 'stop look listen editions in 70s reused a title film clearly from around 1966. Some of the 'Picture box' shows quite late were re edits of shows from 1973. 'A place to live' was on film stock & Granada may have it. A clip from an ITV french series 1969 was shown on a channel 4 retrospect in 90s. Another source are the AV depts of universities or schools. Its worth contacting universities at least as they may have old 'shibaden' reel to reels of old programmes that someone at '405 line' who is interested may have equipment to play them & transfer on.

[Laurence Piper]

I've long been after info on the question of how much of Schools programming survives from the '60s / '70s. Certainly "some" does but I haven't found anyone who can give more a more detailed answer as yet.

Different TV companies certainly vary; as far as Rediffusion stuff is concerned, what there is resides at the NFTVA (a small sampling of programmes such as a Finding Out, a Notre Ville and several others). There's also a documentary surviving that was produced by Rediffusion in the early '60s on the subject. Tragic how so little survives from this company though as they were the first TV company to initiate Schools programmes in 1957.

There are (seemingly) a lot of Granada programmes going back to the late '60s (not so many before that - don't know how many though), according to the Granada database. Although this seems to have a lot of errors, you can get some sort of idea of what's there from it. There are quite a lot of Picture Box, The Messengers etc. Yorkshire are pretty good and seem to have a lot of their earliest stuff from '68 such as "How We Used To Live" (on t/r for the b/w period and in colour afterwards).

Two of the biggest question marks are for Thames and ATV. I'm not sure how much was retained by Thames even before they lost their franchise but I have no idea how much was thrown out (if it was) and considered of no further use when their archive was transferred / "rationalised" by Pearson in the '90s. I know they kept all drama / comedy etc but as far as other genres such as news, documentary and regional / programming is concerned, I just don't know. As John says, I should imagine that at least SOME from the '70s (certainly those made on film) survive, particularly as Thames inherited and continued several of Rediffusion's most well-known programmes such as The World Around Us and Finding Out. The NFTVA have a small number of Thames productions, as they do ATV's.

ATV - being ATV - probably junked a lot of their schools material many years ago (although this is conjecture based on knowledge of the general patchiness of their archive generally in the '70s). I expect there are odd epidoes here and there though - does anyone know for sure?

There was also a documentary made in 1978 celebrating 21 years of ITV schools. This uses many clips from early programmes, possibly indicating that they are still around?

The BBC? A bit of a minefield. They certainly have a lot of things like Scene and Look And Read (although not all). I recall hearing scare stories that they were still junking schools / educational programmes in the late '80s / early '90s - anyone know if that was the case? Can anyone "inside the companies" fill in more detail on any of the details generally?

By the way, whatever happened to Gordon Luck?!?

[stephen doran]

i like very much to see television club again 1st shown from 1962-77?

[stephen doran]

i like very much to see television club again 1st shown from 1962-77? ;D

[John Stewart Miller]

Guest-stephen said:

i like very much to see television club again 1st shown from 1962-77? ;D

I think 'television club' ran up to 1982 when it was announced it would end its run. I recall an actor with moustache running a youth club, plus a fat boy in a white 'T' shirt. The main actor by the way played a main character in DR WHO - TERMINUS (c 82). There must be a few of them existing given its longevity.

[stephen doran]

never saw the 82 ones,ted moult was in the 70s ones i watched,i preferred the plays in the 60s.

[John Stewart Miller]

Without meaning to sound stupid, as someone else may've mentioned this already, LOOK & READ: 'Boy from space' was repeated, with new links, in the 1980s. Also I hear on satellite ? (Recently).
I recall two shows I fear may not survive, ITV schools. One was an episode of something where a secondary school boy dresses up in drag with smeared lipstick as a sympathetic comedy Juliet in school version of 'Romeo & Juliet'. Circa 1970. The audience went 'Ahhh' during the 'death' sequence.
The other 'DRAMA'. Two items. In one a harlequin figure performs a mime before a curtain. Hes dressed in a hood / leotard affair. He fakes plunging a sword either into his chest, or into a limbless torso dummy dressed in suit of armour. A red ribbon streamer is then pulled out representing blood, again about '70. The other DRAMA could be an episode of RULES, RULES, RULES or YOU & THE WORLD also. It was a contemporary social drama, shot on V/T. Actor Billy Hamon played a leather jacketed central character. He visits his girl friend, after a lapse of time, whos ironing in her kitchen. He stands in the hall, then looks shocked as he hears a baby crying.

Last one, ITV, an episode of 'Primary French', ATV 1970. In this (V/T), a bespectacled boy like actor Spencer Banks is talking to someone in a gothic house living room with french windows. At the end, suddenly he & someone else suddenly look across at a grandfather clock. From this appears a cartoon superimposed comedic sheet style ghost with eyes. I think the ghost had a word or thought bubble saying something, from its head. Though intentionally lighthearted, it was quite alarming !

[andrew martin]

Guest-John said:

I think 'television club' ran up to 1982 when it was announced it would end its run. I recall an actor with moustache running a youth club, plus a fat boy in a white 'T' shirt. The main actor by the way played a main character in DR WHO - TERMINUS (c 82). There must be a few of them existing given its longevity.

The last new episode was shown in 1979, there were repeats until 1982. There's a reasonably healthy survival rate for Television Club...

[John Stewart Miller]

Just to update info. I've seen a private tape of a 1969 ITV schools programme 'Our neighbours'. At the opening there was, instead of any transmission links, a colour logo saying 'IBA'. This would be the Independent broadcasting authority.
It raises in my mind whether the IBA may had its own library with backdated holdings, (schools programming employing some stock as old as 7 or 8 years anyway in the late 1970s). This item may have thus originated from a viewing copy of the stock. Another potential source anyway.
In an old NFA catalogue owned by a friend I recently noted holdings of a selection by the NFA circa early 80s of schools programme titles. I made a list, as follows. Please note I also include items that sound like, but may not be, schools titles, provisionally: -

REDIFFUSION - 'Finding out' ep 8 (the tap) 15.3.68.
'Midsummer nights dream' 24.6.64.
(version featuring Benny Hill as Bottom).
'Notre Ville' (L'Accident) 1968.
'Portrait of a school' (?) 8.5.57.
'Preparing a play' (Movement) (?) 1966.
'Television in schools' 1961.

ANGLIA - 'Living & growing' (No. 8) 1968.

GRANADA - 'Discovery' (nucleic acids) 15.10.61
(the science of life) 12.11.61
'Experiment' (radio wave
velocity) 10.11.70.
'The facts are these' (live now, pay later)
22.3.73.
'History around you' (a castle) 20.5.74.
'Gallery' (Lord Hailsham) (?) 13.6.63.

YORKSHIRE - 'Discovery' (awakenings) 24.2.74.
(Butterfly & the baby) 16.3.75.

'How we used to live' (still at school - 1909) 4.10.76.
(on strike - 1926) 17.1.77.
(Blitz - 1940) 7.3.77.

THAMES - 'Viewpoint' (Believe me) 23.9.75.
(money talks) 7.10.75.

BBC - 'Scene' (Underground) 8.3.67.
(Terry) 30.1.69
(Two way traffic) 13.11.69
(Quiet afternoon) 5.10.72.
(James is our brother) 20.2.75.
(And they all lived happily together)
13.1.77.
'20th century focus' (the action) 1965 (proper title not known. owner may or may not be NFA).
(drop outs) 16.11.70
(mental health - who cares?) 23.10.72.
(health hazards - V.D.) 12.3.73.
'television & the world' (?) 31.10.61
'science international' (what is life) (?)
1.12.59.
'the schools' (?) 18.9.62.
'brain & behaviour' (?) (us & them) 11.8.64
(physical framework) 18.8.64
(instinct & reaction) 25.8.64
(reason over reflex) 1.9.64.
'the life & work of an M.P.' (?) 15.1.69
'life before birth' (?) (conception) 21.6.60
(the vital link) 5.7.60
(the link is broken) 12.7.60
'lifeline' (?) (venereal disease) 10.11.59
(A.I.D.) 29.7.60.

Also: friend saw 2 editions of 'stop look listen' (ATV)(editions unknown) at a film fair circa 1994.

ATV had one edition of 'Primary french' (circa 68) shown on '1001 nights of t.v.' channel 4. (Clips)

Rediffusion - 'Transport & communication - the motor car' 1960 exists.

ITV 'Out of schools' previews 1974 & 75 exist. Probably from Philips (off air).

An early edition of 'Watch' possibly 1966, BBC exists.

ITV were still running editions of 'A place to live', 'The land' (73 - 75) in early 80s. Also 'Experiment' (the doppelganger effect). A gothic adaption 'the Labyrinth' for ATVs 'Writers workshop' still broadcast 1978. This was a 16mm film print of a 1973 programme. A horror story up to the standard of 'Ghost story for Xmas'!

[stephen doran]

hi john,i recall a schools programme in the 70s,set in a record shop a boy nicked a record.was this scene from 1972?

[H Hartley]

John. I recall 'RULES RULES RULES' very trendy had what could be described as very fast editing for its day and lots of zoom shots , would not look out of place today i should not wonder.

The other series which was delightful, was a
Greek tragedy series called ' HERITAGE ' . The Ancient Greek sets really worked well with electronic cameras in monochrome.

[John Stewart Miller]

Guest-H said:

John. I recall 'RULES RULES RULES' very trendy had what could be described as very fast editing for its day and lots of zoom shots , would not look out of place today i should not wonder.

The other series which was delightful, was a
Greek tragedy series called ' HERITAGE ' . The Ancient Greek sets really worked well with electronic cameras in monochrome.

I do recall RULES RULES RULES also which was as I recall it about young people & society. I've seen a still from an entry dated sometime between 1968 and 70 I believe featured Cheryl Burfield ('Timeslip'). I seem to think the title board was done in chalk writing and titles may have used the 'Grange hill' theme before that show premiered.

[John Stewart Miller]

Guest-stephen said:

hi john,i recall a schools programme in the 70s,set in a record shop a boy nicked a record.was this scene from 1972?

All I seem to recall from the 72 period was that the SCENE entry 'Terry' for that series (1969) had apparently not then been wiped as it was run from V/T. It only exists now as a film T/R.
SCENE included a number of dramas about teenage rebellion. One edition 'Break in' by Willy Russell, 1975 charted a break in during holidays to a school by a team of secondary boys, who lark about & vandalise the property. It was repeated as part of BBCs 'DEF II' early 90s. During that period SCENE went over to cover factual documentaries as well. Sorry I can't identify the particular item you mention.

[Stephen Doran]

the record played was" the sun has got his hat on,hip hooray" ;D