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Post by Serendipity on Sept 10, 2003 18:08:37 GMT
if dave clark had this arrangement with the bbc then all the totp they performed on should still exist including the first colour 27/11/69 but only in b/w, it will be worth following up all these leads and checking if any other performers, managers, record companies etc had a similar arrangement. This looks very promising, William. I'm puzzled that 27/11/69 would only exist completely or incompletely in black and white, at the same time not doubting you for a minute but this must be due to the limited number of sources who had access to colour technology, as recovered ex-BBC engineer recordings have been in b/w, as have overseas recordings, presumably because they didn't have colour until the mid-1970s, but if not, whatever the reason, even a b/w recording of a performance or edition that was originally recorded in colour is better than nothing and would decrease the gaps of 1960s TOTPs, including 1969 editions, which only have three recovered inserts from December 1969. I'm acquainted with the track Good Old Rock 'n' Roll, which would be good to find. Keith Badman kindly replied to my "Calling Keith Badman" message and plans to resume here when he's completed his book. I'm not sure whether Keith's ever met Dave Clark or any other singers but he might be able to help further at a later date, as from Keith's own postings and other people's comments on Keith's superb expertise on music, he may know further details. PS: All the best with your book, Keith. |
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Post by William Martin on Sept 12, 2003 16:26:53 GMT
If dave clark had copies made of those episode he was in then they would be tele-recordings on film and the bbc didn't have many or possibly any colour TR machines at the time, this whole thing makes me wonder if other artists had a similar arrangement, if you take a look at the totp2 database and count all the episodes the DC5 were in live performance not promos or repeats then that adds up to quite a lot over 15. I wonder what Lawrence , pete, ASM et al think about this?
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Post by William Martin on Sept 15, 2003 17:20:25 GMT
" Many performers did indeed record their own tv appearances; Dave Clark used to make it a condition of his band's tv appearances that he receive a copy of the complete show, plus a copy of the DC5's clip on it's own. Now for the real bummer; Ringo Starr had copies of every tv show the Fabs performed on,or showed their promo films- TOTP,RSG!,People And Places,Thank Your Lucky Stars,Juke Box Jury etc. He had all these shows on film until the late '70s until a fire at his home in Monte Carlo destroyed everything in it. Maurice Gibb also had a home vtr in the late sixties, as he recorded the Lulu show which starred The Jimi Hendrix Experience, and after the live transmission, everyone went back to his house to watch it. Paul McCartney was GIVEN an early vtr by the BBC for his opinion on it (never heard anything else about it, though-maybe he still has it). So, somewhere, SOME totp's must exist-never give up hope. where did you get your info on the DC5? and do you know of any other artists who had a similar dc5 arrangement? this is most interesting and if DC himself still has those recordings he should have arround 20 totp from the first episode the first colour from 1964-1970 if he only has the live performances and arround 40 if he has all promos and repeated performances. we are unusualy well informed and I don't think that many of these people excluding a few who have been mentioned know of the state of totp etc, why should they they have their own lives to lead and unless they, like us have an interest in such things, they are unlikley to know. |
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Post by Peter on Sept 16, 2003 6:34:16 GMT
where did you get your info on the DC5? and do you know of any other artists who had a similar dc5 arrangement? this is most interesting and if DC himself still has those recordings he should have arround 20 totp from the first episode the first colour from 1964-1970 if he only has the live performances and arround 40 if he has all promos and repeated performances. we are unusualy well informed and I don't think that many of these people excluding a few who have been mentioned know of the state of totp etc, why should they they have their own lives to lead and unless they, like us have an interest in such things, they are unlikley to know.[/quote] If you recall the first repeats of RSG! on C4 in the mid-'80's, instead of a regular ad break, Dave Clark used a clip of the DC5 nearly every week. These were from a variety of shows, but nearly always on vt. I'm fairly sure there was an item in Record Collector at the time which quoted DC as saying he had a contractual agreement every time they appeared on a tv show to receive a copy of the complete show, plus a copy of their own clip. This was similar to their contract with EMI, whereby he paid for every recording session, owned the recordings, and simply leased them to EMI. An astute businessman even then!!. While we're on the subject of RSG!, does anyone remember hearing something around 3/4 years ago to the effect that a cache of RSG! had been found in a container truck somewhere in London (Record Collector again, I think). Hope this is of use.  |
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Post by William Martin on Sept 17, 2003 15:24:51 GMT
VT? then its possible that if he has the 27/11/69 totp it may be in colour. This whole thing definitly has to be looked into. do you perhaps remember which edition of the magazine the article was in?
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Post by Serendipity on Sept 17, 2003 16:47:58 GMT
If dave clark had copies made of those episode he was in then they would be tele-recordings on film and the bbc didn't have many or possibly any colour TR machines at the time, this whole thing makes me wonder if other artists had a similar arrangement, if you take a look at the totp2 database and count all the episodes the DC5 were in live performance not promos or repeats then that adds up to quite a lot over 15. I wonder what Lawrence , pete, ASM et al think about this? Thanks, William. I'm thankful for the BBC engineers having access to anything, seeing how destructed the TOTP archives are. Even though colour is much more vibrant, a black and white telerecording is a good substitute. It's unlikely but one day, colour recordings of one or more editions that the BBC now has in b/w may surface. I'll have a count of the DC5 live performances of the Database. It would be lovely if Dave has some 1960s and 1970 Top of the Pops in his collection. PS: Having since read Peter's reply, it would be good if Dave Clark has a colour copy of the later Top of the Pops he appeared in but any finding is worth the effort. Please come forward, Dave. |
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Post by Serendipity on Sept 17, 2003 16:50:29 GMT
where did you get your info on the DC5? and do you know of any other artists who had a similar dc5 arrangement? this is most interesting and if DC himself still has those recordings he should have arround 20 totp from the first episode the first colour from 1964-1970 if he only has the live performances and arround 40 if he has all promos and repeated performances. we are unusualy well informed and I don't think that many of these people excluding a few who have been mentioned know of the state of totp etc, why should they they have their own lives to lead and unless they, like us have an interest in such things, they are unlikley to know. Thanks, William. Fingers crossed that Dave Clark will eventually become aware that several Top of the Pops are missing, if he doesn't already know. One way, although rather a big job, would be to contact the singers of each of their web sites about the archive status of Top of the Pops, in the hope they have one or more recordings. Chicory Tip doesn't, as they said all that's left is Son of My Father from 28 December 1972 but some other singers/groups may have something or know friends who do. If 27/11/69 ever turns up through Dave Clark or anyone else, it could always be colourised, which would bring about the vibrancy of the picture of that edition. I've seen the Database listing for that edition and there are some really groovy tunes there, including the cuddly Kenny Rogers. At least for now we have Something's Burning from 1970 in the archives, more hopefully in time. I can't wait for the 40th anniversary edition! PS: I wrote this before Peter's message but colour or black and white with the option of colourising, if this first edition to originally be broadcast in colour could be located, it would a remarkable find. |
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Post by Peter on Sept 18, 2003 6:29:00 GMT
VT? then its possible that if he has the 27/11/69 totp it may be in colour. This whole thing definitly has to be looked into. do you perhaps remember which edition of the magazine the article was in? Sorry William, the only clue I can give you is that I read the article at the time of the repeats in the mid-80's. If I remember correctly, there were a couple of letters in the mag criticising DC for self-promotion instead of using the time for more footage from RSG! itself. I vivdly remember the news about him having copies of all their tv shows, because when I read it I thought 'Oh, Ringo used to do that too!'. I haven't kept many of the RC mags, mainly because of space reasons (no, I didn't work as a tv archivist in a previous life!), but simply because so much of the info in RC is readily available on the net these days. If i do come across that particular issue, I'll post the article verbatim, but I think it was just in a small box on one of the 'news' pages.  |
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Post by William Martin on Sept 19, 2003 16:26:11 GMT
thanks for the info peter this certainly is useful i'll have a look in the local 2nd hand music shop and see if I can find an RC with a volume index
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Post by William Martin on Sept 19, 2003 16:29:14 GMT
Thanks, William. Fingers crossed that Dave Clark will eventually become aware that several Top of the Pops are missing, if he doesn't already know. One way, although rather a big job, would be to contact the singers of each of their web sites about the archive status of Top of the Pops, in the hope they have one or more recordings. Chicory Tip doesn't, as they said all that's left is Son of My Father from 28 December 1972 but some other singers/groups may have something or know friends who do. If 27/11/69 ever turns up through Dave Clark or anyone else, it could always be colourised, which would bring about the vibrancy of the picture of that edition. I've seen the Database listing for that edition and there are some really groovy tunes there, including the cuddly Kenny Rogers. At least for now we have Something's Burning from 1970 in the archives, more hopefully in time. I can't wait for the 40th anniversary edition! PS: I wrote this before Peter's message but colour or black and white with the option of colourising, if this first edition to originally be broadcast in colour could be located, it would a remarkable find. :)If you check the DB you can see that he apeared in quite a few even if only live performances were saved that would still be good and would give a nice spread including the 1st totp episode of all,.. possibly. Best to assume the worst but possibly.... I'm also trying to find the DC5 fan club address perhaps they can help and may have better access to the man himself If too many people pester him we may never get to see them ever |
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Post by Laurence Dart on Sept 19, 2003 17:30:55 GMT
It's a nice thought, but given DC's track record (not allowing RSG clips to be used in documentaries etc), what are the chances of him handing over copies of anything? And he still hasn't confirmed exactly what he has of RSG! So...should get an answer on his TOTP holdings sometime around 2030.
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Post by William Martin on Sept 22, 2003 15:39:28 GMT
yes... this is what I've heard as well, DC is rather a tough business man, he was one of the few artists to manage himself and keep the copyright on his own songs, I can't see him just handing them over after all it's his legal property and he has no obligation to do anything.
On a related matter the DC5 Lead singer Mike Smith was recently admitted to hospital after injuring his spine in a fall.Does anyone have information on this?
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Post by Kevin Mulrennan on Sept 23, 2003 17:47:18 GMT
Got this via google.
Mike Smith...Official Press Release -- John Briggs, 20:01:26 09/16/03 Tue
Mike Smith, lead singer of the legendary 60's British rock group The Dave Clark Five, was admitted to a hospital in Cadiz, Spain on Saturday after suffering a spinal injury as a result of a fall at his home. His condition is deemed critical.
Smith, who resides in the south of Spain, has been transferred to a private hospital nearby that specializes in sports injuries, where he is under the care of his long-time London physician, Dr. Keith McKee, and a spinal specialist. Both doctors are cautiously optomistic.
It continues to be a bittersweet year for Smith, the man who Tom Petty calls "one of the best singers of the 60's." After receiving rave reviews from fans and press alike during his first US Tour in over three decades earlier this year, on June 1st, Mike's only son, Jamie, a 23 year old SCUBA instructor, died off the coast of Egypt while trying to rescue a lost group
of divers. In August, 2003, Smith again took to the US stages appearing at festivals and casinos in Las Vegas and the Mid-West.
"We're in the process of putting together a 2004 tour to mark the 40th Anniversary of the British Invasion," says Margo Lewis, Smith's agent at TCI in New York "and we have every confidence that Mike Smith will be a part of it."
Smith's recent US appearances included performances on Late Night With David Letterman and at the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.
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Post by William Martin on Sept 24, 2003 15:33:33 GMT
he and his family have obviously had a rough time, life can be very cruel. The Radio news said he was in a bad condition it seems like it was worse than they first thought, lets hope he does recover and as soon as possible.
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Post by William Martin on Sept 24, 2003 15:43:50 GMT
in the USA it was the practice to give guests on shows a copy of the edition that they were on if the DC5 type deal was at all common then more artists should definitly have recordings, Ringo(fromthe earlier posting) seems to have had a large collection I wonder if the other members had the same deal.
not everone is as well informed as we are to the existence (or lack of) material from pre 1978, it would be worth sending out a few speculative letters, even if they don't have anything they may know someone who has TRs or home video
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