TOTP montage

[Laurence Piper]

From the clips downloaded, it seems very likely that the 25/12/69 and 10/9/70 TOTP (at the very least) exist complete. Probably also either some clips from other editions or more whole shows from around the same period. If only the person owning them would just come forward and let the BBC take copies. A lot of people would be very grateful to him to see the material again, myself included.

[A.S.M Smith]

Dear Laurence
I have informed Keith Badman about these montages. He is chasing up a few leads to try and trace the source, but please don't raise your hopes as it may be very difficult.
regards ASM

[Mark Kerridge]

Just something I spotted on Montage 2. This is in relation to the short clip of the 2 dancers after the "Bridge Over Troubled Water" film but before Lulu.

I'm pretty sure that this clip is from 25/12/69. Notice that one of the girls has the name "Pete" draped across her; can't quite make out what the other one has ("Jimmy" perhaps?). These are the same 2 girls with the same outfits from the 25/12/69 opening titles, clips of which are quite extensive on both montages.

[Mark Kerridge]

Re: Montage 1 - The Rattles "The Witch" clip; if the sound and vision belong together, then this suggests a different edition than the officially existing 15/10/70 show as the track is being played over the end credits. Didn't the performance we have seen a few times on TOTP2 originate from somewhere in the middle of the 15/10/70 show?

Going by the Database, this could mean that a segment from 13/8/70, 29/10/70 or 5/11/70 also survives.

Comments please?

[Neil Barker]

Guest-Laurence said:

Did the guy who identified Joe Dolan also tell you that he owned the missing material too then, Neil? What name did he post under? Just curious.

No, he/she just posted under the name 'TOTP Heaven'.

[William Martin]

Guest-Serendipity said:

Thanks, William. I've recently returned from holiday and have just seen your message. I will upgrade to Explorer 6.0 at a later date but I know what you mean about Microsoft software. It has its good points but it's not always stable. For instance, if I cut or copy and paste information, in some cases a 2 space paragraph moves up one so the separate paragraphs are stuck together. Maybe this problem is fixed on Explorer 6.0, hopefully.

I've been reading the various comments on Neil's montage. I am most astounded. If only the owner of these performances would come forward. Either he/she is holding on to them privately or doesn't know about this forum. I'm hopeful that more performances will become available to the BBC in the end.

The BBC may be interested in these audio recordings from the 26/12/69 edition, after reading on their FAQ that both audio and video recordings are welcome. This is more good news.

identifying the clips is difficult with only the songs and their order to go on, if only this person had left the recorder alone through the whole show and not just recorded these few. But the other fragments of radio 1 (from late 67 judging from the records )on the other side of the tape are just a severly clipped again no djs or idents just the records even the start and end of the records are missing again probably to cut out the dj. so anybody who has the running order of this show?

The montage does seem to prove that 2" tapes did 'walk' from
the archive so there probably are more, although I can understand why the current owners are reluctant to come forward I wish they would, perhaps a (or a few) inbetween(s) could be used to protect their names. Perhaps they feel that the specific material they hold may give away their identity if only a few people had access at the time. At the time being caught with bbc property would lead to instatnt dissmissal, but now they wan't it back too badly to take action. perhaps these people are current bbc employees but again the bbc wouldn't take action now.

(ps I've had the sticky paragraph problem as well makes you wonder why bill gates is a millionair if his product is faulty. )

[Laurence Piper]

Anyone know about that clip of a girl dancing to (apparently) Sugar Sugar? It looks like to be from the Sugar Sugar sequence that i'm told was mocked up for TOTP2 from a Feb '71 edition. Can anyone confirm this or otherwise?

Yes, any of the clips can have new sound dubbed, which further clouds the issue. The vision CAN'T be faked though, and obviously proves that much material is out there somewhere.

Incidentally, an incomplete colour copy of the Lulu performance does already exist at the BBC archives after all (this info has been amended on the database).

[Harry]

It's so frustrating that the early colour period of 1969 / 70 Top Of The Pops is very poorly represented in the archives. Even if the holders of the missing tapes kept their identity a secret, we'd all just be extremely grateful if they'd offer to let the BBC make a copy - that way we'd all get a chance to enjoy all this stuff again. None of us are getting any younger after all.

[Peter Mathias]

Montage 1: the dancer in the first clip has "creedence clearwater [revival]" painted on his back.

Montage 2: I think the 2 dancers just before the Lulu clip spell out "Pete Murray" between them

[ASM]

Yes the girl dancing in the "Sugar Sugar " clip is the same Girl/Montage TOTP2 did. It's the 27 Feb 71 show I think and I think the REAL song the audience were dancing to was PAUL McCARTNEY'S "Another Day" NOT %100 sure though.
ASM.

[Edward Russell]

Guest-ASM said:

Yes the girl dancing in the "Sugar Sugar " clip is the same Girl/Montage TOTP2 did. It's the 27 Feb 71 show I think and I think the REAL song the audience were dancing to was PAUL McCARTNEY'S "Another Day" NOT %100 sure though.
ASM.

I'm not sure I agree. The dancing / hand with tambourine is completely in time with the music and the rest of the editing doesn't seem to suggest that this person is a professional editor.

[ASM]

Dear Edward
Though i'm no means a Fashion expert the clothes the audience are wearing in the full dancing clip are 1971 most definatly. As i stated I can't be sure they're dancing to "Another Day" But I feel certain it's not originally "Sugar Sugar" If you can check on the 27th Feb 1971 tape and i'm wrong, you have my full apologies.Lets hope the owner of the montage `breaks cover` Keith Badman is on the search.
Very Best Regards. ASM

[Serendipity]

William said:

identifying the clips is difficult with only the songs and their order to go on, if only this person had left the recorder alone through the whole show and not just recorded these few. But the other fragments of radio 1 (from late 67 judging from the records )on the other side of the tape are just a severly clipped again no djs or idents just the records even the start and end of the records are missing again probably to cut out the dj. so anybody who has the running order of this show?

The montage does seem to prove that 2" tapes did 'walk' from
the archive so there probably are more, although I can understand why the current owners are reluctant to come forward I wish they would, perhaps a (or a few) inbetween(s) could be used to protect their names. Perhaps they feel that the specific material they hold may give away their identity if only a few people had access at the time. At the time being caught with bbc property would lead to instatnt dissmissal, but now they wan't it back too badly to take action. perhaps these people are current bbc employees but again the bbc wouldn't take action now.

(ps I've had the sticky paragraph problem as well makes you wonder why bill gates is a millionair if his product is faulty. )

Thanks, William.

"If only this person had left the recorder alone through the whole show and not just recorded these few" - Agreed. We need all the private sources we can find.

I was so shocked to read recently that it's not until August 1977 that all broadcasted editions of Top of the Pops exist. Since seeing the Trivia guide, I'd always thought it was 23 September 1976 but apparently not so. It begs the question as to whether the BBC randomly also junked the 1977 editions or accidentally junked them but either way, this is yet more waste of a fantastic show.

If the private owners of officially wiped editions of Top of the Pops came forward, we could all see so much more, hoping there is a lot more existent out there. If they were to anonymously send a package, the BBC would have the recordings and be able to put them back in their archives but maybe they'll come forward eventually, especially if the BBC reassures potential owners that they won't get prosecuted for returning their programmes.

As for the sticky paragraph problem, it is very annoying and hopefully Bill Gates will get this sorted out one day. I can only assume that the Business version will be more stable but the problem there is that it's much more expensive than the Home version. On my own computer, the problem exists in Outlook Express. As far as I know, there isn't a problem in Microsoft Works. At least I've not noticed anything but Microsoft Word may be more stable, as it's the elite version of Word Processing, like Excel is to Spreadsheet and Access is to Database.

[Serendipity]

Neil said:

Whoever it is they definitely know about this site as they once posted a message on the TOTPtastic board that made it pretty obvious they had seen this forum.

I enquired on the old Missing Episodes forum as to who the chubby bloke in the first montage was, and they posted a message on the TOTPtastic board to tell me it was Joe Dolan.

Thanks, Neil.

With a bit of luck, the BBC will follow up your comments and other people's on this forum and see if they can trace the owner of this montage and the owners of other editions and performances. Like I was saying to William, I'm rather shocked that the BBC had wiped some more editions in 1977, having previously seen on Trivia that 23 September 1976 was the point at which all broadcasted editions survived from. Maybe somebody has one or more of the missing 1977 editions. The only overseas television station I'm aware of which has performances from TOTP is ZDF - as used on Disco but whether any other overseas countries have them is something I wish I knew the answer to.

I was reading Clive's comments recently in which he said that Swedish television's archives have been well kept. If only the BBC had kept a similar amount but I'm hopeful that more will turn up. Who knows when or where but the audio and video TOTP recordings quoted by you, Keith Badman and others shows that they are out there.

It seems that the 9 September 1982 editions exists, which I think isn't on the Database, according to you and some others. I can't remember The Boom Boom Room by Natasha but I can visually remember her appearance for Iko Iko, from summer 1982. I've since discovered that The Belle Stars also did a version of that song but whether they appeared for it, I'm not so sure, as their version only got to number 35 in the charts.

As for 9 August 1984, I add my name to the verification that this exists. Richard Skinner red the middle chart countdown, leading up to Laura Branigan's video of Self Control, which if I recall correctly had the wrong chart number position (number 11), instead of number 13 after the chart went forward, turned around and zoomed towards the screen. The marvels of Quantel. How I remember this, I don't know. Some performances and aspects of Top of the Pops in the 1980s escape my memory while others are so vivid. Love Blonde by Kim Wilde, Don't Try to Stop It by Roman Holliday, Tantalise by Jimmy the Hoover and a rap tune The Crown by Gary Byrd and The GB Experience from summer 1983 are some of many other memories I remember. I think it was Mike Smith who introduced Gary Byrd at the end of the show, so this must have been 4 August or 25 August 1983, when Mike co-hosted TOTP with John Peel then Simon Bates. What an unusual pairing - John Peel and Mike Smith!!!

[William Martin]

Guest-Serendipity said:

Thanks, William.

"If only this person had left the recorder alone through the whole show and not just recorded these few" - Agreed. We need all the private sources we can find.

I was so shocked to read recently that it's not until August 1977 that all broadcasted editions of Top of the Pops exist. Since seeing the Trivia guide, I'd always thought it was 23 September 1976 but apparently not so. It begs the question as to whether the BBC randomly also junked the 1977 editions or accidentally junked them but either way, this is yet more waste of a fantastic show.

If the private owners of officially wiped editions of Top of the Pops came forward, we could all see so much more, hoping there is a lot more existent out there. If they were to anonymously send a package, the BBC would have the recordings and be able to put them back in their archives but maybe they'll come forward eventually, especially if the BBC reassures potential owners that they won't get prosecuted for returning their programmes.

As for the sticky paragraph problem, it is very annoying and hopefully Bill Gates will get this sorted out one day. I can only assume that the Business version will be more stable but the problem there is that it's much more expensive than the Home version. On my own computer, the problem exists in Outlook Express. As far as I know, there isn't a problem in Microsoft Works. At least I've not noticed anything but Microsoft Word may be more stable, as it's the elite version of Word Processing, like Excel is to Spreadsheet and Access is to Database.

as a friend of mine once said "Microsoft Works", no it doesn't

it is unusual that no home video of pre 1970 totp has turned up, this seems to be one of the most likely progs to be recorded, there wern't that many home videos in the sixties but enough (at least 2000 probably many more)that a few totp should exist somewhere. and for those who think that 2000 is an overestimation remember that in 1939 when bbctv closed for the war there were an estimated 20,000 tv sets in homes or on order.

based on survival of other shows, an esimated figure of suriving 60s TOTP episodes would give 15-20 that minus the 5 or so we know exist that would give 10-15 . This doesn't mean that there are any more but if there are this is the most likely number.
However it could be that one home video pioneer bought one of the first videos on late 1964 and recorded all of them from then on it only takes one(rich) die-hard fan of totp, dr who, Adam Adamant lives etc and we would have all the missing episodes in one home, well we can dream.
what would help is if the bbc made a public assurance that they will not prosecute and place the names of the returners(if they want to be identified) on the cover and in the credits. a bit of servile crawling can get you a long way.Think basil fawlty and lord melbury.