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Post by lpmoderator on Sept 17, 2007 23:52:30 GMT
It doesn't explain why the continuation of ABCs 'MYSTERY AND IMAGINATION' series were all kept though. I had heard 'TYRANT KING' was kept as it was the first Euston Films production and designed as a model example for the qualityof both the company and to future kids TV makers at Thames. The other reasons might be; it couldn't be recycled as it was on film; and I recall a friend pointing out it was made in collaboration with London Transport. That would imply a partner owned copyright. To summarise; apart from the odd series 'SMITH'; 'TWO Ds AND A DOG'; 'ELEPHANTS EGGS IN A RHUBARB TREE' and oddments from series ('ZINGALONG'); the pre 1972 period seems overall depleted. I wonder if there was pre 72 sometimes a contract written into the making of a programme before it was made. As regards comedy - If 'BLESS THIS HOUSE' and 'MOTHER MAKES THREE'; for example were briefed as being designed for overseas marketing before they were produced; perhaps this explains why other titles in the comedy genre like 'A PRESENT FOR DICKIE' were generally wiped. Interesting thoughts, John. I think with Thames' Mystery & Imagination though, it was a re-fashioning of the concept from the ABC version (only the title is the common ground), possibly meaning that they made the later version themselves and considered it a new show in most respects. Also meaning that it was kept? There are a few anomalies that don't quite fit the pattern. A Present For Dickie is one. Another could be Two In Clover, which seems to me very much something for UK taste only. Tyrant King wasn't the first Euston series as such but in the book on that company (sadly out of print now) it says this series was viewed as a kind of template proving to the higher-ups that 16mm all-film series were possible on smaller budgets than had been the case up till then (e.g. ITC etc). So it was a blueprint and something that Euston used as an example of what they were aiming for.
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Post by Christopher Perry on Sept 18, 2007 5:33:14 GMT
Has Elephants Eggs been recovered, John? My understanding is that that is also missing still?
c
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Post by hartley967 on Sept 18, 2007 10:49:42 GMT
Has Elephants Eggs been recovered, John? My understanding is that that is also missing still? c if its any help I recall an Elephants Eggs on a clip show some time ago showing Richard Beckinsale. Elephants Eggs was a victim of the colour strike, only one episode out the whole series was made in colour and this maybe the only one that survives?. Puzzling why there is not one 'A Present for Dickie'? . This was a totally unique sitcom at the time . ( According to IMDB it was shown in Holland in 1971). I read somewhere a while ago, some Thames TV manager said that they had kept at least one example of every production they had ever made..obviously didnt know his own company. ..
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Post by Christopher Perry on Sept 19, 2007 7:05:47 GMT
I've checked and all of Elephants Eggs is wiped at Thames, perhaps somebody else has a clip in private hands.
c
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Post by johnstewart on Sept 19, 2007 15:30:24 GMT
Thought there was something of the series. I seem to think I'd seen a clip since the time.
Any thoughts on my latest theories?
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Post by lpmoderator on Sept 24, 2007 7:48:14 GMT
I've checked and all of Elephants Eggs is wiped at Thames, perhaps somebody else has a clip in private hands. c I was just looking at the Kal Children's Guide, Chris, and it states that the whole six survive on D3! Four in colour and two in b/w, presumably due to the ITV strike. Is this an error?
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Post by Christopher Perry on Sept 24, 2007 17:46:01 GMT
I assume so :-) That research is very old now sadly.
c
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Post by lpmoderator on Sept 25, 2007 14:53:18 GMT
OK, thanks. A great shame. I remember watching this series too.
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Post by johnstewart on Sept 26, 2007 21:03:40 GMT
It is a shame - though I hated it when it was first on!
Seems my theory - luckily - on 72 doesn't stand up after all. Study of the same period KAL guides indicates there are quite a few instances where oddments like the ZINGALONG episode pre 72 survive.
I also note that there are some series; i.e. HAPPY HOUSE; which ran over into 1973; where the 73 episode also does not survive.
There was a follow up Rod Hull series which ran 1973 - 74; quite late but this also seems to have been entirely wiped.
Be interesting if anyone has any more ideas on what actually decided, if anything did, the fate of the early childrens TV holdings.
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Post by lpmoderator on Sept 27, 2007 10:08:25 GMT
It is a shame - though I hated it when it was first on! Seems my theory - luckily - on 72 doesn't stand up after all. Study of the same period KAL guides indicates there are quite a few instances where oddments like the ZINGALONG episode pre 72 survive. I also note that there are some series; i.e. HAPPY HOUSE; which ran over into 1973; where the 73 episode also does not survive. There was a follow up Rod Hull series which ran 1973 - 74; quite late but this also seems to have been entirely wiped. Be interesting if anyone has any more ideas on what actually decided, if anything did, the fate of the early childrens TV holdings. Do we know when the pre-72 / 73 Thames material was actually junked though? Was it kept for some years initially or wiped pretty quickly? Knowing this may possibly assist in forming theories about Thames archive policy. Mind you, there seems to have been different policies for Drama / Comedy, Light Entertainment and Schools / Children's shows during that 1968-72 period.
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Post by johnstewart on Sept 30, 2007 19:05:18 GMT
I think - some - of it (not all) was wiped soon after.
We know ACE OF WANDS 'seven serpents' was kept for at least 2 years as it was repeated; then copies made for overseas sales.
I still think theres something we don't know about the sales division at the time and copies made.
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Post by johnstewart on Oct 9, 2007 20:13:49 GMT
Just to add - just seen the interviews with Pamela Lonsdale; producer of Thames' ACE OF WANDS' on the new DVD.
Interesting Pam offers some light on what happened on her comments. Apparently a staff member from the department would go round to the individual producers offices with a list. This was an off the record comment; but it was said that; as Pams team were in rehearsal at the time they were absent and unavailable to give permission either way for the wipings. So they went ahead apparently.
Presumably this would be after Pam Lonsdale had moved onto RAINBOW c. 1972 - 73. We can gather from her comments that this was done in one batch rather than several occasions as she couldn't have been out all the time!
This omits the fact though, that the masters of the 'SEVEN SERPENTS' story were retained fro a repeat in the London area in July 1973.
Presumably these were the only series 1 and 2 episodes available for overseas contract at that time for that reason. We know that they were probably kept over for 525 duplication and sales to canada / New Zealand.
The evidence indicates B+W terecordings were made of series 3 (as some exist) and I would assume therefore all the existing tapes at that time would have been transferred likewise for sales to other countries?
It's feasible Thames might recoup losses made by keeping all their drama tapes by wiping childrens TV and some comedy though.
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Post by lpmoderator on Oct 10, 2007 8:41:57 GMT
Presumably this would be after Pam Lonsdale had moved onto RAINBOW c. 1972 - 73. We can gather from her comments that this was done in one batch rather than several occasions as she couldn't have been out all the time! This omits the fact though, that the masters of the 'SEVEN SERPENTS' story were retained fro a repeat in the London area in July 1973. The evidence indicates B+W terecordings were made of series 3 (as some exist) and I would assume therefore all the existing tapes at that time would have been transferred likewise for sales to other countries? There's no indication at all as to when the wipings were undertaken though. You're assuming it was '72-'73; it could have been (much or a little) later. The later it was, obviously there is more chance that copies were made somewhere along the way, to whatever format.
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Post by simoncoward on Oct 12, 2007 15:26:57 GMT
Just to correct and clarify some earlier posts - Do Not Adjust Your Set had two Christmas editions. The first was made by Rediffusion and was shown on Boxing Day 1967. The second, otherwise known as "Do Not Adjust Your Stocking" was made by Thames and was shown on Christmas Day 1968. The former does not exist AFAIK, the latter, of course, does. The show also had a summer special that was broadbast in July 1968.
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Post by lpmoderator on Oct 12, 2007 16:13:24 GMT
Wasn't the summer special just a screening of the Montreux entry though, and not new material?
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