is this the worst year for recoveries?

[rumbers]

Seems to me this year especially has been an unfruitful one. Has anything of significance been returned to tv companies archives?

[ethantyler]

I think 2006 has, so far, been particularly excellent with the quality of finds and the sheer unexpectedness. Think Out of the Unknown: Level 7, A for Andromeda: The Face of the Tiger and Sierra Nine: The Elixir of Life, Episode Two for starters!

[Ghostchild]

Think that for finishers as well because precious little else has shown up and I think this is reflected on this very forum. The Doctor Who page is full of either ridiculous, stale or downright scary ideas and Ian Levine himself has said he's giving up hunting after that awful Marco Polo hoax.
The last DW recovery was nearly a year ago and that was just a few seconds long.
The rest of the forums (barr the pop music one) are now little more than Q and A forums, ie does this exist? etc, very similar to the Mausoleum Club. There's very, very little posts of real relevance any more.
And even those just go on and on without anything seeming to come from it - Monty Python, NOBA
I've been visiting this site now for a few years and have seen the quality of posts gradually decline. I don't want to have a go at the people who support this site but am I alone in thinking it's very nature is changing and shifting away from a real episode hunter's site?

These are all my own views and I would be interested to hear what anyone else, except that relentless spammer, thinks.

[Greg H]

Well we have seen people get blasted for being unaware that something has already been looked at, which is perhaps less than helpful, and isnt really going to contribute to peoples enthusiasm or efforts.
There are a limited number of topics that can be started in this area tbh, if interest is going to be maintained in visiting what would otherwise be a completely dead forum between major breakthroughs and recoveries then there is probably going to be a few topics that are not to everyones liking.
I guess its called conversation and there is always the option to pass on participating in one that is not to your taste.

And anyway, back on topic, It has been a pretty cool year for recoveries all in all. A for andromeda was a MAJOR recovery, I didnt think that hoarder / scumbag was ever going to give this back to the public. Lets just hope they deign to cough up whatever else they are sitting on sooner rather than later.

I havent personally seen the out of the unknown ep yet so I cant comment, but im sure it will be excellent.

[Daniel O'Brien]

I think the various 'Doctor Who' hoaxes have soured some people's perception of this year's recoveries. There have been some great returns and I'm sure there are more to follow. That said, I doubt any more missing 'Who' will turn up.

[h hartley]

GH said:

I didnt think that hoarder / scumbag was ever going to give this back to the public. Lets just hope they deign to cough up whatever else they are sitting on sooner rather than later.

.

How to win friends and influence people eh?

Somebody who has kept a film from the landfill is a 'scumbag' ?
Somebody who has cared for the film for years is a 'scumbag' ?


These people have absolutely no obligation whatsover to give these to the public and after reading that post why the hell should they?

[Andrew Doherty]

Is this the worst year for recoveries?

The basic answer to this thread is no. This year' Missing, Believed Wiped event will show, as one of the previous posts has pointed out, that there have been finds of consequence.

It should be understood that 'finds' are not something that are guaranteed to occur (as I know when involved in tracking down items). It may be that some programmes, though missing, are in existance, but in the hands of A few collectors who are reluctant to part with items. Also, don't forget the excellent work of Chris Perry and the Kaleidoscope group who have done a great deal in the search for missing programmes, and, when found, have shown them at their events. This is in addition to the work of Dick Fiddy and the staff at the B.F.I., who have been very successful in the search for missing television.

Moreover, consider the excellent work of Andy Henderson (who has done a superb job in recovering missing programming). In the past others, such as Neil Ingoe and Andrew Emmerson, have made major contributions to the recovery of such programmes.

It is true that there have been postings by individuals that have not been constructive. However, you can always rely on quality postings from Laurence Piper and Andrew Martin.

Of course, there will be humorous postings (nothing wrong with that, surely?) in both this and the Mausoleum Club web sites.

It may be that there are more postings by individuals who may not be as serious about the recovery of missing programmes, but that can never be said of those named in this posting.

Yours,

[rumbers]

Thankyou for your replies.
As a general rule of thumb what sum of money might persuade private collectors to finally part from their treasured acquisitions?
I have always thought from the start that we need a millionaire benefactor who is willing to offer between £500 and £10000 for the return of each item.
Equally important is trust. Trust that....
1. this purchaser will return the material to the copyright owner and not act as a middle-man to negotiate a sale for his own personal gain and ..
2. That once returned to the copyright owner it will be 'used' and not left to gather dust on some shelf for another 40 years.

That's an often overlooked point as TV companies indifference to their archives justifiably rankles many collectors.
The reason why so called 'scumbag' collectors 'dig their heels in' and seem uncooperative is as much to do with this issue as it to do with monetery gain.
Even if this project failed it would succeed simply by exposing the existence of many many more presumed lost shows.. and give us all a focus on who to target for the future.

[Greg H]

@ h hartley
Yes, hoarders are scumbags.
Appropriating and witholding material from the management that was in place at the BBC when the purges occured is completely understandable. However, Sue Malden was appointed some time ago I think you will find and policies have considerably changed.
So, yes I stand by my comment that people who continue to hoard are scumbags, selfish scumbags who withhold enjoyment from the true fans of the shows. The BBC wont make much money off of the release and restoration of the A for Andromeda recovery and the speed with which they put it out is to their credit, caring for the fans and putting it where it belongs, in the public domain. The BBC is no longer an organisation that junks our favorite programs, they are begnign now and the people responsible for the junkings are mostly dead.
So who is really on the recieveing end of selfish hoarders who prefer to gloat over deteriorating 16mm prints in private? Retired or dead policy makers of the 60s BBC are probably not much injured by it.
So yeah I call them scumbags.
Do they have an obligation to return stuff, of course not. But then I dont have an obligation to help my fellow human beings regardless, I dont have an obligation to treat people with decency, but I still do.

[H Hartley]

Well GH! an allegory for you.

You have a Van Gogh hanging in your living room, you have no obligation to show it to anybody else, its very nice if you do but that is your privilege. After all you obtained the painting by fair means not foul , using your own common sense. You know about paintings so you know how to look after it.

At one time you may have wanted to show your Van Gogh to others but he was out of fashion , nobody was interested and treated your offer with contempt. Now today all you see is hungry eyes, not particularly interested in Van Goghs but the fact your painting is missing.

You knew Mr Vincent Van Gogh personally, he absolutely hated this painting for some reason and was going to rip it up , but gave it to you on the condition that few saw it, you respect his wishes .

[Greg H]

Well, I would still share the picture with the world.
I was bullied at school as well you know, and I dont bear any of those people a grudge and im perfectly pleasant to them when I see them. I think this really comes down to personality type and disposition. I am a kind and giving person, not an embittered husk. If I have an oppurtunity to make the world a better place for my fellow human beings I do without question, I dont sit and stew that 30 years ago I felt slighted by someone. I think your mind set is the product of desparately clinging to the negative aspects of your existence. You should should probably chill out and try and enjoy the things that are good a little bit more instead of being filled up with hate.

Were you the chap who made that hoax about the missing sherlock holmes up, or am i getting you confused with someone with a similar line in trolling?

[Dick Fiddy]

This year's Missing Believed Wiped event will take place on Sat December 2nd at the NFT in London and will feature Level Seven, Patrick McGoohan in Rendezvous, Chapman and Adams' sketch show pilot Out of the Trees, Nigel Kneale's The Crunch, and clips or complete screenings of Hattie Jacques' Miss Adventure, a channel television admag, No Hiding Place, a recently resurfaced six minute Goodies sketch and a newly recovered (very short) sketch from At Last the 1948 Show.

[Deleted]

H said:

Well GH! an allegory for you.

You have a Van Gogh hanging in your living room, you have no obligation to show it to anybody else, its very nice if you do but that is your privilege. After all you obtained the painting by fair means not foul , using your own common sense. You know about paintings so you know how to look after it.

At one time you may have wanted to show your Van Gogh to others but he was out of fashion , nobody was interested and treated your offer with contempt. Now today all you see is hungry eyes, not particularly interested in Van Goghs but the fact your painting is missing.

You knew Mr Vincent Van Gogh personally, he absolutely hated this painting for some reason and was going to rip it up , but gave it to you on the condition that few saw it, you respect his wishes .

Heh heh. There's great truth in what you say, Hartley. We all get steamed up sometimes because of others hoarding treasures we selfishly want to see again but the above puts the situation into perspective and illustrates that there is more than one way of viewing the situation as to why so much missing stuff out there remains undiscovered.

[Van Gogh]

H said:

Well GH! an allegory for you.

You have a Van Gogh hanging in your living room, you have no obligation to show it to anybody else, its very nice if you do but that is your privilege. After all you obtained the painting by fair means not foul , using your own common sense. You know about paintings so you know how to look after it.

At one time you may have wanted to show your Van Gogh to others but he was out of fashion , nobody was interested and treated your offer with contempt. Now today all you see is hungry eyes, not particularly interested in Van Goghs but the fact your painting is missing.

You knew Mr Vincent Van Gogh personally, he absolutely hated this painting for some reason and was going to rip it up , but gave it to you on the condition that few saw it, you respect his wishes .

Not a very good comparison.

[RWels]

Dick said:

This year's Missing Believed Wiped event will take place on Sat December 2nd at the NFT in London and will feature Level Seven, Patrick McGoohan in Rendezvous, Chapman and Adams' sketch show pilot Out of the Trees, Nigel Kneale's The Crunch, and clips or complete screenings of Hattie Jacques' Miss Adventure, a channel television admag, No Hiding Place, a recently resurfaced six minute Goodies sketch and a newly recovered (very short) sketch from At Last the 1948 Show.

Out of the Trees? Did it survive after all? I heard speculations several months ago about a reel-to-reel tape, and then a very long silence.