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Post by Greg H on Jun 25, 2016 23:35:14 GMT
I'm really not sure that this is a good idea...but if we are going to be blunt about such things,I admit that I like chips with brown gravy! Hopefully that will be enough to keep another recession and mass unemployment at bay. The trouble is no brexit fan has given the UK a decent plan for the UK's economy after the 'Brexit'. Quite the opposite really. If other people want to jump off of a cliff that is their prerogative but I wish I didn't have to be included in their descent, which sadly the rest of us are. |
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Post by John Green on Jun 26, 2016 1:10:52 GMT
Greg,if we want too keep it serious-and I hate it that a similar thread elsewhere has lots of offence and swearing.I'm glad that it's different here-it seems quite possible that the French are more 'Eurosceptic' (I prefer ECloathing) than the British. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/view-from-germany-hans-kundnani-britain-eu-vote-leave Points worth considering are that the Whitest area of London went for Remain,while the most diverse went for Leave,while some,at least,Leftists,including perhaps the current leader of the Labour Party do not love the Peculiar Institution.The view that 17 million British women and men are mentally defective,dupes (with Lower Consciousness) who have no capacity to filter the things they read through their own intelligence,and racist,is more popular than I'd realised.With Orwell,I say it's not a Britain I recognise. |
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Post by Greg H on Jun 26, 2016 5:41:56 GMT
The vote was won by a very small percentage and as such it is not really a sincere majority of British people who have chosen to shoot themselves in the foot by following an isolationist plan. Problem is I get dragged along with those who have no vision and get their facts from the daily mail :/
Yeah, but, they rely on papers that are owned by really bad people for their facts. You name-checked Orwell as well, and I never saw anything in his writings that suggested ruling the masses by propaganda and a state/ media business partnership was something he was down with.
Basically, the UK, far from entering some new golden age, is going to suffer for leaving the EU, and even though I didn't vote for that, I am going to suffer along with everyone else. A bit like having a Conservative government in power I didn't opt for really. The papers are to blame.
This isn't personal John, but I don't think anything to celebrate has happened here. The coming years may prove me right in this sentiment.
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Post by John Green on Jun 26, 2016 9:28:43 GMT
Greg,it's sincerely to be hoped that,despite our fears,humanity finds a utopia,rather than a dystopia.Recent writings on the new,robotic,industrial revolution and the rise of AI are a bit worrying.
It may sound like A-level philosophy,but all human social constructs eventually get replaced "My name is Ozymandias..." and it looks as though that time is coming for the EU.I remember how it was when my wife left me after 25 years of marriage.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 9:35:28 GMT
Greg writes: "even though I didn't vote for that, I am going to suffer along with everyone else"
But Greg, that is democracy. Everyone had the opportunity to vote - Cameron even going so far as to extend the registration period. The Remain side even sent out their leaflets via the Government before the official campaign began - yet still they couldn't win the argument.
As for these people calling for a second referendum, well... have you ever seen a bunch of such bad losers!?
The people have spoken - and would be outraged if the government chose not to listen. But to be fair to Cameron, it looks as though he has. Have never voted for him, but he's a decent man.
Colin.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jun 27, 2016 8:03:25 GMT
Sorry, I have no wish for this to degenerate into insults, but I can give RWels a very simple reply: Have no worries, we won't be trying to get back in. Your sarcasm and the points you make demonstrate only too clearly why Britain wanted OUT. Colin. Tell that to the Scots. Oh, speaking of sarcasm, you don't wish to degenerate, do you? Well sorry if I thought that you, Colin Anderton, being British, could recognize what was only half serious. Then again, Stephen Byers had trouble with it too. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2016 14:21:53 GMT
I was about to reply politely - possibly even with a hint of apology - to RWels, in case my response had appeared a bit too agressive.
However, I see he sent me a personal message, and I thought other members might like to see this childish response, and for the moderators to consider whether he is a fit member of our group.
His message:
"Three words for you:
Go.
frak.
Yourself.
Don't care who you are. If you can't reply normally, then just go frak yourself somewhere else."
What a little baby. Go suck your dummy, idiot!
Can we please get rid of people like this?
Colin.
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jun 27, 2016 15:18:48 GMT
I was about to reply politely - possibly even with a hint of apology - to RWels, in case my response had appeared a bit too agressive. However, I see he sent me a personal message, and I thought other members might like to see this childish response, and for the moderators to consider whether he is a fit member of our group. His message: "Three words for you: Go. frak. Yourself. Don't care who you are. If you can't reply normally, then just go frak yourself somewhere else." What a little baby. Go suck your dummy, idiot! Can we please get rid of people like this? Colin. Oh, is that so? Too aggressive, you think? Then please accept my humble apologies - I was getting a bit annoyed with the various negative feedback which I felt was not entirely deserved for what was after all a not too serious post. Although I don't really see why you were so angry in the first place, I mean, the side that you voted for won. |
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Simon Collis
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Post by Simon Collis on Jun 29, 2016 22:27:35 GMT
What is truly regrettable about the whole Brexit scenario is the deplorable level of racism and homophobia that seems to have sprung back up almost overnight. I have friends and colleagues now genuinely scared to leave their homes at times.
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Post by Richard Marple on Jun 30, 2016 12:23:30 GMT
What is truly regrettable about the whole Brexit scenario is the deplorable level of racism and homophobia that seems to have sprung back up almost overnight. I have friends and colleagues now genuinely scared to leave their homes at times. Yes some people are treating it as a bigot's charter. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 8:28:22 GMT
"the side that you voted for won."
The real loser was The Establishment - and they don't lose!
With Teresa May, you're about to get a front seat watching The Establishment at work. We are going to humiliate ourselves in front of the world, remaining in the EU in all but name. Just watch....
Democracy? That's a laugh!
If we end up effectively staying in the EU, I hope millions of people will join me in deciding that voting is a waste of time, and that perhaps we should take to alternative methods in trying to change things.
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Post by John Green on Jul 3, 2016 9:31:48 GMT
It seems quite possible that more countries will want to leave the organisation in the next few years.As far as rationality goes,we've seen many examples of societies choosing uneconomic courses because of religious or political beliefs,from the many which bar women from the workforce,to Cuba,which has been in economic purdah for decades.Sometimes people decide that they've had enough.Despite the pro-exit newspapers,there were enormous forces on us to vote remain-all the main political parties were in favour,the vast majority of celebrities,(Billie Piper is apparently in tears that we'll no longer be in the trade-bloc.),and there's plenty of pro-EU propaganda in schools,I suspect.
The EU isn't immortal.I believe that many of its political objectives were and are unwanted by most people under its aegis,and I don't believe that it would have taken notice of anything,short of Brexit-not even the threat to leave.And yes,some planning for the future would have been good!
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jul 3, 2016 12:31:48 GMT
Oh I agree with one thing actually: Damn right you're going too humiliate yourselves! Look at this for example: I hope millions of people will join me in deciding that voting is a waste of time, and that perhaps we should take to alternative methods in trying to change things. Oh yeah? Like what? Speaker's Corner not good enough for you? I guess the options are either the Fawkes/IRA/RAF/IS way, or some form of ultimate protest like setting fire to yourself in Brussels (presumably out of Manneken Pis' reach). It seems to be mostly an emotional matter with many people, like the EU is the thing you love to hate only worse. I've heard similar rants from rabid Americans who think the UN is not just inefficient, but intentionally evil. The truth is, if either of the two was abolished, it would have to be reinvented. Did you know that for a time, the UK, Sweden, Switserland, and a few others had their kind of rival EU (escapes me for the moment? It failed. |
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Post by John Green on Jul 3, 2016 13:00:24 GMT
An example of how the EU works for (or rather against) the third-world: In 2014 Africa —the home of coffee— earned nearly $2.4 billion from the crop. Germany, a leading processor, earned about $3.8 billion from coffee re-exports. The concern is not that Germany benefits from processing coffee. It is that Africa is punished by EU tariff barriers for doing so. Non-decaffeinated green coffee is exempt from the charges. However, a 7.5 per cent charge is imposed on roasted coffee. As a result, the bulk of Africa’s export to the EU is unroasted green coffee. The charge on cocoa is even more debilitating. It is reported that the “EU charges (a tariff) of 30 per cent for processed cocoa products like chocolate bars or cocoa powder, and 60 per cent for some other refined products containing cocoa.” capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/ |
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RWels
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Post by RWels on Jul 3, 2016 15:26:01 GMT
An example of how the EU works for (or rather against) the third-world: In 2014 Africa —the home of coffee— earned nearly $2.4 billion from the crop. Germany, a leading processor, earned about $3.8 billion from coffee re-exports. The concern is not that Germany benefits from processing coffee. It is that Africa is punished by EU tariff barriers for doing so. Non-decaffeinated green coffee is exempt from the charges. However, a 7.5 per cent charge is imposed on roasted coffee. As a result, the bulk of Africa’s export to the EU is unroasted green coffee. The charge on cocoa is even more debilitating. It is reported that the “EU charges (a tariff) of 30 per cent for processed cocoa products like chocolate bars or cocoa powder, and 60 per cent for some other refined products containing cocoa.” capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/Given the fact that the brexit vote came in part from people with racist/xenophobe attitudes, I don't really see how the one is worse than the other. Just saying. This kind of thing is where you (meaning everyone, really) select the example that suits your opinion. |
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