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Post by andyc on Nov 23, 2015 12:27:59 GMT
Nor did I, Andy. Then again, it sent me to sleep so perhaps the massive revelation was that it proved to be massively overrated. I would say that was very much a matter of opinion... The last 10 minutes or so with Clara just dragged on and on and on and on and on, culminating in a predictably over-melodramatic scene with her and the raven. And I still couldn't see any revelation. |
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Post by Tony Ingram on Nov 23, 2015 14:54:24 GMT
I would say that was very much a matter of opinion... The last 10 minutes or so with Clara just dragged on and on and on and on and on, culminating in a predictably over-melodramatic scene with her and the raven. And I still couldn't see any revelation. I think the dramatic revelation was simply that Ashildr, who is now clearly considered a major supporting character, was working for the Doctor's mysterious foes. Which probably was indeed a dramatic twist for most of those who are simply fans of the current show and don't think that something is only significant if it relates to a story from forty years ago. |
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Nov 23, 2015 15:01:45 GMT
Unless I'm being particularly thick, I didn't see any revelations in "Face The Raven", massive or otherwise. The first time something happened on-screen since Earthshock, and before that Dalek Masterplan would be a revelation I'd think. Though why it was littering up the missing episodes board is beyond me. Not even sure it happened on-screen in Earthshock, given the lack of physical evidence, and the later Big Finish audio ... |
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Post by Rob Moss on Nov 23, 2015 15:06:12 GMT
The last 10 minutes or so with Clara just dragged on and on and on and on and on, culminating in a predictably over-melodramatic scene with her and the raven. And I still couldn't see any revelation. I think the dramatic revelation was simply that Ashildr, who is now clearly considered a major supporting character, was working for the Doctor's mysterious foes. Which probably was indeed a dramatic twist for most of those who are simply fans of the current show and don't think that something is only significant if it relates to a story from forty years ago. Indeed - in the same way that a BBC Three spin-off series WAS actually a major announcement, even though it had nothing to do with 50-year old film prints, despite what "fandom" would have you believe..! |
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Post by Tony Ingram on Nov 23, 2015 16:41:13 GMT
Unless I'm being particularly thick, I didn't see any revelations in "Face The Raven", massive or otherwise. The first time something happened on-screen since Time Flight, and before that Dalek Masterplan would be a revelation I'd think. Though why it was littering up the missing episodes board is beyond me. Not even sure it happened on-screen in Time Flight, given the lack of physical evidence, and the later Big Finish audio ... Earthshock, surely? |
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Post by andyc on Nov 23, 2015 19:13:18 GMT
I think what we've learned here is that hyperbole is alive and well.
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Post by markandresen on Nov 23, 2015 21:47:05 GMT
I think what we've learned here is that hyperbole is alive and well. Indeed. |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 23, 2015 23:43:49 GMT
The first time something happened on-screen since Time Flight, and before that Dalek Masterplan would be a revelation I'd think. Though why it was littering up the missing episodes board is beyond me. Not even sure it happened on-screen in Time Flight, given the lack of physical evidence, and the later Big Finish audio ... Earthshock, surely? And for those who've joined us in 2005, and have only watched the new stuff, this was an even bigger wallop.  Unlike the previous instances, Clara is the longest running companion the Doctor has travelled with to meet such a fate.  Certainly, working at Coal Hill School isn't a guarantee of safety these days. Ian and Barbara had some pretty trying situations but in the end made it back safe and sound. Danny Pink and Clara Oswald, on the other hand - and a series apart - not so much. I'm glad Jenna Coleman got the honour to leave the show this way. It's not often done, and Moffat was right to leave it until it had a real impact, with someone the audience surely cares a lot for. Katarina, Kamelion, even Sara Kingdom - I think the response to those departures will be rather overshadowed by the events of Face The Raven. Out of a very small number of companions who went out feet first, I think for mine Clara's passing is the one I cared most about and the one that will in the eps and series to come will have the greatest influence on the narrative and reaction of the Doctor. He'll adjust, but not soon.  If they'd softballed it like Peri's exit, or the improbable Gallifreyan nuptials in The Invasion Of Time, it'd have been a darn shame. This year, we got to see Clara do a bunch of new and interesting things that let Jenna flex her dramatic muscles and leave in a way that will assure her place in the show's history and the memory of the audience. She didn't go out a victim or unlucky, she remained in synch with the Doctor's lifestyle and philosophy. Each was better for the other's influence, right to the end. That said, I wonder if we'll see a flashback of some kind before this year wraps, a la Matt's surprise phone call in Deep Breath.  * Just on that point of longest running companion KIA, some numbers: Adric - not counting illusions - got 11 TV stories over Seasons 18 and 19. Clara, on the other hand, beats this more than three times over with 35 TV stories up to Face The Raven. It is true that the structure of stories and eps are different from the old money to now. Yet even on minute to minute basis, I'm pretty sure that Clara still wins first place.  There's still two eps of Series 9 to air and a Christmas special not long thereafter, so there's still a chance Clara may well take the lead in another companion category too, that of longest serving companion since 2005: www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-09-19/could-jenna-coleman-become-the-longest-serving-doctor-who-companion-of-the-modern-erawww.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-04/peter-capaldi-warns-that-claras-doctor-who-exit-will-be-a-long--and-painful--goodbye |
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Post by Richard Marple on Nov 24, 2015 13:49:39 GMT
Recently DWM pointed out Clara had been on Dr Who longer than Sarah Jane in terms of time from first episode, though well behind Jamie in terms of episodes.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Nov 24, 2015 20:22:31 GMT
Of course! I haven't seen either for well over a decade. Not sure what I was thinking there. I do have to wonder if it's permanent. Though I was expecting Danny Pink to come back sooner or later. |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 24, 2015 23:08:17 GMT
Of course! I haven't seen either for well over a decade. Not sure what I was thinking there. I do have to wonder if it's permanent. Though I was expecting Danny Pink to come back sooner or later. I reckon Moffat has established himself as someone's who's not playing cheap tricks with killing characters. The running joke with Rory in the Smith years has I think changed with the new tone we've got in the Capaldi era. Shake up expectations, heighten the danger. The Master returns as Missy and she offs fan fave Osgood in Death In Heaven. Not even Delgado got that privilege with supporting cast. Osgood may have a new twin, but the one we saw killed in Series 8 is still dead a year later. So's Danny, as you mention. Clara is dead. Not to say we might not see her in a flashback or a visit from a distance or something, but her sacrifice has to matter. What did Ohila look like when she was younger? Might be she was the Clara that we saw on Gallifrey...  |
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 24, 2015 23:11:42 GMT
Recently DWM pointed out Clara had been on Dr Who longer than Sarah Jane in terms of time from first episode, though well behind Jamie in terms of episodes. Ha, really! Thanks Richard, wasn't aware of that. I haven't looked at a DWM in years, perhaps I ought to pick up a subscription for my iPad. Given the hurt of losing Clara, it'd be nice to see McCrimmon back on the TARDIS for a visit. He's never been paired with a Scottish Doctor, and it might be fun (after exploring the bootstrap paradox) having a play with the "no true Scotsman" idea: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_ScotsmanTom went a bit tartan in Zygons. Is the world ready for Capaldi's knees were he to don a kilt?!  |
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Post by Alan Jeffries on Nov 25, 2015 13:32:16 GMT
Of course we could well see Clara again. She was split into all sorts of everywhen. But we have seen her last day.
Alan
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