Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 21, 2012 16:55:18 GMT
I think we need to be polite to anyone with a lead - however unlikely. The likelyhood of more missing WHO turning up has to be very, very, very slim and to be honest, sometimes hearsay and rumour is all we have to go on. Seconded. We don't actually have anything to lose by being open and polite to people on this forum - and we have a lot to gain. Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 17, 2012 22:27:48 GMT
Thank you :-)
Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 17, 2012 21:47:12 GMT
I have a recollection reading somewhere on the restoration team web-site (I seem to remember the example was with Snowmen 2 - but I can't find the article) that the 16mm film print was zoomed in relative to the original broadcast. Is this correct, or am I dreaming it? Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 16, 2012 15:28:14 GMT
No Kangaroo... But I did get a Dingo. Was it missing?
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 16, 2012 15:09:44 GMT
That's $30k shipping costs then.
Did they throw in a free kangaroo?
I'm staggered!
Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 15, 2012 15:21:11 GMT
Do you think that's a good thing?
Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 15, 2012 15:15:16 GMT
I'm going to bet the final price is £2,500. Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 14, 2012 10:59:48 GMT
Yes,all well and dandy,you don't like this,you don't like that but you all seem to be missing the point! In 20 years when the nostalgia boom for the 'dreadnoughts' kicks in,the episodes for new Who will still BE THERE,not missing,wiped or junked. It surprised me to see there is stuff missing from the BSB broadcasts (just looking at Kaleidoscope's web site). I used to have BSB (that lovely squarial - all I recorded was Doctor Who, though) Makes you wonder whether even relatively recent stuff goes missing. Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 13, 2012 23:05:05 GMT
[quote author=rdevelyn board=who thread=7009 post=69352 time=1331671761I haven't seen the newly recovered underwater menace yet so I can't in honesty say if I would swap it for a macra episode. I wouldn't swap that one - I think part 2 is great. It's part 3 (the one we've had for ages) that I'd swap for Macra 2. I tend to prefer the episodes which show Patrick Troughton's Doctor in all it's humanity (if I can use that term on a time-lord) the most. It's strange that he had this reputation as some sort of clown, to me his portrayal is by far the least caricatured and the most appealing, particularly in the way he balances reason and emotion when he deals with people. I actually find it quite inspiring. Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 13, 2012 20:49:21 GMT
That first angel story of the new series was as good as any classic Doctor Who story has ever been, IMO, but after that I think of it as pretty much a different program.
Anyway, I was thinking the original question would be a bit more interesting if you could only swap episodes that aired within a month or two of each other.
For example, I wish we had Ice Warriors 1-4 instead of 1,4-6; Invasion 1-6 instead of 2,3,5-8.
Underwater Menace part 2 is a great find and I wouldn't swap it but part 3 I would love to swap for Macra part 2.
TP 3 I would swap for 4; Masterplan 10 for 11; RofT again I think we've got the wrong end of - I would like 1, 4-6 instead of 1-3 and 6.
Wheel 3 is good but Wheel 6 I'm not so sure on - Evil 1, which followed it, would of course be much better, but otherwise Wheel 1, rather than 2 (no Troughton), would be my choice.
The Airlock find is great, even though I would have preferred something from the Myth Makers, which is my favourite Hartnell story.
Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 13, 2012 17:12:37 GMT
I would point out that so far, EVERY known collector who has located a missing Dr. Who episode has voluntarily loaned or given the print back to the BBC - Gordon Hendry, David Stead, Ian Levine, Francis Watson, Bruce Grenville, Terry Burnett (forgive me if I've left anyone out). And we're all very grateful to them and long may it continue. The people I've been trying to address, though, are ordinary people who may have a missing episode sitting in their garden shed, who would like to give it back but who are wondering whether there may be a bit of money in it for them (not at all an unlikely thing to consider). I think we should try to be fair to them (assuming they *are* out there) and explain what their best course of action is. As to that, I still think the best thing to do is to let the BBC make a copy of the episode and then auction it, but I understand that other posters here think otherwise. Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 13, 2012 15:49:55 GMT
If it is possible to guarantee the uniqueness of a missing episode and, I would suggest, complete anonymity for the buyer and seller, then I can understand why a buyer might want to spend £10K + on one.
If it is not possible to guarantee this, then all the buyer is doing is paying for an episode to come back to the BBC (eventually, in some form).
Now I know there are some rich and generous people out there, and maybe if this happens someone will step forwards. I think it more likely that the people bidding for a missing episode will have the same limited means as the ones currently bidding for an existing episode. We'll have to wait and see.
It would make sense if the cost could be spread out throughout fandom, since it is being done for the sake of fandom, but I cannot see how this could be organised.
I honestly think that this is one of those cases where desirability will not translate into a high sales value. There are too many obstacles to overcome.
Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 13, 2012 13:03:08 GMT
I would conjecture that if either of the recently recovered film prints went up for auction now they would make 2x to 3x the amount that this one will make.
I would also conjecture that if they had gone up for auction prior to being returned to the BBC they might have made a bit more than that but not enough, IMVHO, to compensate for the very unwelcome attention that they would have generated.
All of this, of course, is "altruism-aside", and I'm sure that nobody on this forum would dream of holding fandom to ransom in this manner. In a funny sort of way, though, I think it's important to have an open and honest discussion about this because, although I would love nothing better than to see more episodes returned, I wouldn't want to rob anyone.
Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 13, 2012 10:49:23 GMT
Or they could just scan a few sections of the film and post these images on the auction... that's all that would really be needed. No need for a clip at all. Possible, I grant you, though to make the scans hoax-proof would take a bit of effort. Someone might, after all, have some off-air photos that haven't been seen before, and Photoshop. And the trust issue I also don't see as a problem; all you'd need to do is to make the statement in the auction that you were selling your only copy of the print, and it would be legally binding. Again, I'm not sure whether you couldn't simply get round this by saying it was the person you got it from that had the copy. Legal minefield, in my opinion. Heck... it's not outside of the realms of possibility that rather than sell it on eBay, you might sell it through an auction house like Sothebys... There'd be no issue of trust then, as they would ensure that the description of the item was accurate. It wouldn't be a hoax then though it still might not be unique. I've no idea what Sothebys charges in commission - people presumably choose to use eBay for a reason. Maybe one day someone will try this and we'll see what happens. I can't imagine it going down well with fandom unless the episode was on its way back to the BBC, and fandom, whether we like it or agree with it or not, is a force to be reckoned with. I shudder to think what would happen if a missing episode was to emerge briefly in an auction site on its way from private hands to private hands never to be seen again. It would be like the 4th crusade. Richard
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 12, 2012 9:03:39 GMT
From the point of view of a non-fan seller who solely wants to make money - the best bet is to put it up for sale without returning it. And in fact, that is what happened with the Z-Cars... When the missing Z-Cars episode went on ebay, I called the seller (who is another film dealer as I am) to see if I could get him to return a copy to the BBC, he refused because he wanted to maximize his profit - he didn't care about what happened to the episode once it was sold... Where you and I are at cross-purposes, Steve, is that you're consistently talking about film collectors, whereas I'm thinking about private individuals selling material on the open market. I think a film collector, with a reputation to preserve, will be able to sell a missing episode on the open market for more money than a private individual. I think a lot of the reason for this is that they will have enough of a good idea about its uniqueness either because they know the source or simply because of their experience in the field (and I accept that this is your area of expertise) to be willing to stake their reputation on it. A private individual can give no such guarantees. First of all they would have to persuade people it wasn't a hoax, which would at least require a substantial clip posted on youtube (which would then infringe the BBC's rights - correct me if I'm wrong). Then they would be faced with the problem of trust both in the exchange of goods for money and in the promise of uniqueness. Such an individual could try getting a collector to sell it for him, but that could put the collector in an awkward position since they would have to trust the originator on the episode's uniqueness. In my opinion, it would be a mine-field, and I still believe that such a person would be better off returning the episode first and selling it as a collectible. Richard P.S. I have no idea what film collectors get up to in their private circles. I merely said they "may well" be shuffling episodes around. Maybe the masons are shuffling episodes around as well. Who knows what goes on in these close-knit groups? There's nothing we can do about it anyway.
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