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Post by richardwoods on Sept 7, 2023 6:29:12 GMT
Mmm, I’m not entirely convinced by explaining away The possible screening of The Savages as The Monster of Peladon either, but that’s just me. 🤣🤣🤣 Argue that with Jon Preddle, I think you’ll find that MoP had been shown at the time. You are probably right but I always try to be positive with these sort of reports when there is at least a small amount of logic supporting them🤞
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 20:48:19 GMT
As far as I’m aware, the only person on the forum who has attempted any investigation of this was me and I certainly haven’t discredited his recollections, although as I’ve been off the forum for 19 months I’m happy to be proved wrong on this. I've not said anything, but I've tried to dig out South African newspapers of that period, to see what might be in the classified, etc. But I've found nothing online to even search. Jon Preddle and his contacts have always been best at digging out obscure stuff like that. Any luck? Excellent stuff and thanks for trying. I would be really interested to hear if any progress has been made by anyone else.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 20:42:04 GMT
I received a verification email from them when I joined but they never got around to allowing me full publishing rights which meant that all my posts had to be checked by the mods before publication which was incredibly irritating.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 20:36:01 GMT
Of course you may well be right in all three cases John, in reality though we may never know for sure.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 20:30:22 GMT
Mmm, I’m not entirely convinced by explaining away The possible screening of The Savages as The Monster of Peladon either, but that’s just me. 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 20:27:32 GMT
It’s clear what happened in SA. Prints of film series, possibly UK as well as US, circulated before TV started. Consequently those around at the time “saw” TV programmes on 16mm. After TV started and, subsequently, VCRs became available they saw the programmes identified on this forum on either broadcast TV or bootleg cassette. There wasn’t a single UK programme identified that didn’t fit that explanation. 45+ years later the programmes seen after TV started were conflated with those seen on 16mm before it started. As to what Neil may, or may not, have seen that’s also best explained by a conflation/jumbling of memories and the recollection of the short filler immediately preceding DW is close to proof of that. He saw MT when TVNZ broadcast it and later saw something at school, a contemporary film featuring giant crabs has been identified. Are we really expected to believe that in addition to DW Neil again saw the same filler that preceded Episode 3 of MT that day at school? The others who, supposedly, saw MT were, again, remembering something from decades before, perhaps they saw something with giant crabs? It’s a bit like those supposed to have seen Savages but probably saw Monster of Peladon. I’m not sure that I really agree with you on either point, in both cases you make logical and coherent arguments to explain away what Hendry and Neil recollect but, and it’s a big but, in both cases the individuals involved, who were after all there at the time, are clear that they remember things differently from the version of events you suggest. My feeling is that we should “trust” the individuals and their memories to be “right” unless concrete proof turns up that proves otherwise. Again that’s just my opinion and of course you are perfectly entitled to yours too, John. On the other hand I understand & agree that it’s really important to challenge these sort of recollections & memories to see how well they stand up.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 19:25:03 GMT
Well, I’ll nibble on the bait John, I’m sure that you would be disappointed if I didn’t 😉.
The guy who told me about the bootleg films of UK TV programs being rented out for home use & also shown in independent cinemas prior to tv arriving in SA was a South African who lived through it all.
There may have been errors in his list of programs he gave as off the cuff examples, (the memory cheats on detail for sure), but as far as I’m concerned, I believe him completely that (presumably) unlicensed copies of UK TV programs were made available to the white population via these platforms in the 60’s & 70’s in apartheid SA and could have possibly included programs no longer held in the UK archives.
This guy has no interest per-ce in Missing Episodes and he was there and so I feel that he is very likely to be generally right on this and in my opinion there’s little if any justification in trying to discredit what he has said.
As far as I’m aware, the only person on the forum who has attempted any investigation of this was me and I certainly haven’t discredited his recollections, although as I’ve been off the forum for 19 months I’m happy to be proved wrong on this.
I feel much the same about Neil and the NZ School Sports day recollections. He has independent witnesses that it actually happened too don’t forget.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 17:24:42 GMT
Thanks William, that’s great & saved me a few Bob too.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 13:37:39 GMT
I remember watching this after News at 10 on Central some time in 82/3 I think. Good series but can’t find if it has ever been issued on DVD. No sign on the usual outlets. Does anyone know?
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 13:32:21 GMT
Yeah, I walked away from Roobarb’s too for much the same reason as John. Not a good fit for me.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 13:28:59 GMT
I wonder if the two VHS episodes will be shown. I’m guessing probably not. A shame really as “ A Star is Born” is particularly relevant to the plot.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 12:59:29 GMT
For what it’s worth Neil, I wholeheartedly believe you. This sort of thing happened, as I mentioned before my primary school in Carlisle specially opened up as the summer holidays had started & showed a reel to reel recording of the BBC Moon Landing the morning after so to speak & I attended despite being got up by my father at 3am to watch in real time. I advised Paul when I joined the forum as it is a lead however tenuous on the missing BBC Apollo 11 footage, so this sort of thing did happen. Slightly different circumstances but still…… We know that some early video recorders were around in the late 60s - the moon landing was July 1969 - but that can’t be taken as evidence that 16mm DW prints moonlighted from TV stations. The alleged showing of the Macra Terror can now probably be eliminated. There’s no way a short documentary that had preceded a TV broadcast of an episode could have possibly be shown at a school. Consequently it’s clear that there are jumbled memories. I take your point, I was just suggesting that sometimes the unexpected can happen from the point of view of someone who has been disbelieved (not on here I hasten to add), over the school moon landing video showing. Perhaps a better example would have been that in 72/3 I used to be in a youth club in rural NE Lincs and they used to have Cinema nights. One of the organisers used to get hold of old b/w British films (1930’s & 40’s vintage), from somewhere and show them. No idea if anything missing was shown but again it did happen. I’m sure Neil finds it as uncomfortable to be disbelieved as I did. I get that the memory cheats but in my experience it’s more over detail than the bulk of the memory itself.
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Post by richardwoods on Sept 6, 2023 10:26:52 GMT
fwiw I don’t think Macra Terror was shown at a school in NZ. It was probably something else and memories were later confused. I was also skeptical about this (particularly when someone showed a B-movie about crab monsters that it could've been instead) but the latest research seems pretty conclusive. This quote from Neil Lambess won't be news to you but it's worth repeating here as it was posted outside the DW section and is the most recent commentary on the Macra situation from anyone involved in it. Sorry John ...I DEFINATLY saw Macra (I was even dissapointed that it was one I had already seen ) When David Creighton did his excellent research (along with Jon )they did discover some stuff that hasn't been shared publicly ...To the extent that we know the collectors name,( provided by other witnesses who mentioned his Doctor Who prints) his criminal convictions, and that the trail went cold in Wanganui after his death. In the 90s I contacted a friend of a friend who used to work at NZBC /TVNZ who in the 1970s would occasionally borrow stuff from work and bring it up to my friends place and screen it at his house. (I was there) When I contacted him in the 90s he told me how the stuff went walkies and how some of it was "written off" simply by writing destroyed in the relevant programme logs . All highly illegal but money was made by a few employees of the channel.(including the person telling me this!!!) He knew of a collector in Masterson who liked science fiction shows including Who , Ootu, And the usual American SF shows ( but specifically didn't want historical episodes of Who ).....this last bit is particularly interesting as he probably at one time owned the 16mm film print of "the Lion" and abandoned it ..(ironically I eventually tracked that one down in Auckland in 1999...after been told there couldn't possibly be a print of it in NZ as it hadn't screened here !).... I can't prove conclusively that he owned it but as the Lion was kept in storage in a farm shed in Masterton alongside many other film prints (the shed containing some of their owners collection ) and as Masterton was where I saw Macra and where both I and it's probable owner lived there's a interesting probability they could have been owned by the same person Adding to my speculation the person storing the films in the shed was only a friend of the actual films owner and after the prints were abandoned ( ... around the same time the school teacher was in jail ) he decided to sell them /give them away to a local film collector Larry Duggan .who eventually on sold the Lion in 1998 . Sadly we all missed the boat here in NZ as Larry Duggan was concerned and his collection was on sold and some of it dumped after his death ....so we don't know what else was in the Masterton shed or what the collector took to Wanganui. Anyway ...I do get a little bit disheartened (no offense) when people suggest I saw something like "attack of the crab monsters " instead of what I know I saw !... and if you still think I'm mistaken the print I saw at the school started with a" world around us" 5 minute short featuring speedboats and ice sculpture in Japan -including thunderbird 2 ) then doctor who started and I'm pretty sure it was ep 3 ..... funnily enough a couple of years ago Jon Preddle discovered that ep 3 of Macra screened with a "world around us " short before hand ....the only episode of Macra to do so in NZ....... Nevermind I'm still looking for it ...I won't be surprised if the film print just has "world around us " written on it ...IF ...and it's a big if . It's managed to survive They have the name of the guy, third-party evidence of him having Doctor Who prints, and Preddle independently verified Lambess's recollection of a 5-minute documentary being shown before episode 3. At this point it seems more likely than not and suggests that NZ collectors' interest in Doctor Who extended beyond the chance rescue of The Lion. Unfortunately though it sounds as if these prints didn't survive into the present day For what it’s worth Neil, I wholeheartedly believe you. This sort of thing happened, as I mentioned before my primary school in Carlisle specially opened up as the summer holidays had started & showed a reel to reel recording of the BBC Moon Landing the morning after so to speak & I attended despite being got up by my father at 3am to watch in real time. I advised Paul when I joined the forum as it is a lead however tenuous on the missing BBC Apollo 11 footage, so this sort of thing did happen. Slightly different circumstances but still……
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Post by richardwoods on Jan 1, 2022 14:23:48 GMT
Ah well, it looks like it’s been left to me (again) to wish everyone on the forum a Happy New Year!!!
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Post by richardwoods on Dec 30, 2021 12:35:22 GMT
My late Dad was born in the right period to bee a Boomer, but was probably even more socially aware than I was! Exactly
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