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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 18, 2014 0:57:01 GMT
Would it really have been a breach of contract for the ABC to makes dupes of Who episodes to distribute around the continent? They would have paid an amount based on the right to screen and repeat them in Australia, rather than just the cost of prints. I agree. Have the dates of the introduction of microwave links been definitely established and compared with the Australian transmission dates in the outback ? The interesting thing is that dupes would have been made after the censor cuts so if any of these ended up in Taiwan they should be identifiable from those. Off the top of my head - it was only sydney canberra and melbourne were 61? Perth was later. .. maybe it was done for the Commonwealth games I think?
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Post by John Wall on Jan 18, 2014 1:00:00 GMT
One of the 2011 recoveries, I think UM2, had cuts that matched the Australian censor cuts. I recall, I think, Paul explaining how he got these transferred so that they could be slotted back in. I think HD scans of the cuts were also made recently? Dunno. I'm unsure if any of the telerecordings would justify the sort of treatment recently dome for the "Spearhead" blu ray ?
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Post by Sue Butcher on Jan 18, 2014 1:01:16 GMT
OK, here are the dates I think I know. First Quad tape machine in Perth, 1962. First permanent coaxial cable TV link between Melbourne and Sydney, 1963. Microwave link to Perth completed, 1970.
Video recording and replay was necessary to cover the 1962 Commonwealth Games in Perth, which is why Perth got Quad machines at this time. I don't know when the other remote ABC stations received Quad gear, maybe later in the Sixties
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Post by AndyLehrer on Jan 18, 2014 1:04:14 GMT
Are the 'cross-matched' censor cuts - of recovered stories - frame perfect as such? On Ian's FB page, Keith referred to episodes having been "censored by AFRTV. Bad splices." - now perhaps the cuts weren't done by Armed Forces TV but by whoever had had the reels previously (eg ABC). Lining up the cuts in the reels Keith has with known cuts by various broadcasters may allow one to identify where the episodes were before reaching Taiwan.
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Post by AndyLehrer on Jan 18, 2014 1:06:36 GMT
What I find ironic is that the very anti-war War Games may have been aired (or perhaps screened) for military audiences.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 18, 2014 1:07:34 GMT
Are the 'cross-matched' censor cuts - of recovered stories - frame perfect as such? On Ian's FB page, Keith referred to episodes having been "censored by AFRTV. Bad splices." - now perhaps the cuts weren't done by Armed Forces TV but by whoever had had the reels previously (eg ABC). Lining up the cuts in the reels Keith has with known cuts by various broadcasters may allow one to identify where the episodes were before reaching Taiwan. We need these looked at by Paul, et al.
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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 18, 2014 1:25:01 GMT
OK, here are the dates I think I know. First Quad tape machine in Perth, 1962. First permanent coaxial cable TV link between Melbourne and Sydney, 1963. Microwave link to Perth completed, 1970. Video recording and replay was necessary to cover the 1962 Commonwealth Games in Perth, which is why Perth got Quad machines at this time. I don't know when the other remote ABC stations received Quad gear, maybe later in the Sixties I just had a look at some books. The co-axial was 63 - it was at least in place by Nov 30 because they used it show election coverage in the three cities. However elsewhere there is mention of temporary (microwave I assume transmitters) which I need to read a bit more on.
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Post by Marty Schultz on Jan 18, 2014 1:38:56 GMT
On a side note - the first ABC regionals were the same year Bendigo 29/4 Ballarat 20/5 Newcastle 5/6 NE tassie 29/7 Latrobe valley 30/9 Woolongong 28/10 Darling Downs 16/12 Rockhampton 21/12.
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Post by johnforbes on Jan 18, 2014 6:07:48 GMT
As Neil Lambess pointed out, TIE was actually in a much better position to distribute these prints to Foreign Forces than the Aussies were.
From what I can make out, TIE, and not the BBC, was responsible for initially sending pristine copies to countries and then the countries bicycled them around. (The BBC would obviously initially send copies to TIE)If however, a print was lost or damaged, it would have then presumably been TIE who replaced it. If this was the case, then TIE OBVIOUSLY held a spare copy of EVERY episode in its inventory in a building somewhere, that could then be copied for such a purpose.
These Taiwanese prints, could therefore be Australian, Gibraltan (as they are the only other foreign country who match every episode found in Taiwan so far) or, copies of TIE's personal stock, or, the personal stock itself.
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Post by Robert Lia on Jan 18, 2014 6:17:41 GMT
they could also be Rouge ABC prints from Australia that missed the big shipment back to the U.K. for some reason and made their way to Chinese Taipei in the mid 1970's and ended up on a former US Military Base. The AFRTS Station that they were found out was located on a former military family housing area.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Jan 18, 2014 7:19:41 GMT
they could also be Rouge ABC prints from Australia that missed the big shipment back to the U.K. for some reason and made their way to Chinese Taipei in the mid 1970's and ended up on a former US Military Base. The AFRTS Station that they were found out was located on a former military family housing area. Like i have already said. It may of been taking for granted that these prints would be destroyed on faith between the two parties. Rather than paying for the shipment cost of half way around the world ! And the possibility of unauthorised dupes maybe ?
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Post by Robert Lia on Jan 18, 2014 7:36:51 GMT
More than likely when they were moving this around inside the ABC things got separated. Sort of like when we move some times a book will get separated from the rest of the books in the series or one of the video tapes in the collection will disappear only to be found later in another box. Obviously the workers packing up the films for return to the BBC were not concerned and more to the point the BBC Enterprises employees who took inventory did not care either.
Otherwise we would have had message traffic flowing between BBC enterprises. BBC Sydney and the ABC asking "where is episode 2 of "Revenge of the Gargleblasters" as it was not retuned with the other 5 episode of the story and to please check for it (and any other that were missing)
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Post by johnforbes on Jan 18, 2014 8:36:14 GMT
I'm surprised that the owner of the prints says that AFRTS made a lot of cuts.
What censorship cuts would you need to make to kids tv (albeit sci-fi) that is going to be watched by adults whose job it is to actually try their best to kill other human beings ?
I really doubt that AFRTS had the time, will or manpower to employ people to watch and censor stuff they were going to show to troops. So if as claimed there are cuts, I honestly doubt AFRTS made them.
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Post by Robert Lia on Jan 18, 2014 10:04:00 GMT
AFRTS would only censors shows that were not "politically correct" to the US Military or the US Department of Defense. And I refer to news broadcasts. for example when I was stationed in the Republic of the Philippines in the 87-90 (91) time frame AFRTS would show the CBS Evening news at 12 p.m. Monday to Friday but every now and then they would show an NBC News broadcast or an ABC news broadcast in its place. what this meant was that CBS was airing an unfavorable broadcast about the U.S. military or the U.S. Department of Defenses. Per regulations AFRTS was prohibited from "editing news broadcasts". How ever they were allowed to "black out" the entire broadcast in question in question or as was done in the 80's replace it with a "less negative" news broadcast from another U.S. Network. During the Vietnam war it was common for a news "black out" to occur on the AFRTS network especially if it was detrimental to the moral of the troops fighting the war.
keep in mind AFRTS was a world wide service including Iceland, Turkey, Germany, Italy, Spain, Cuba as well as Japan, South Korea, The Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam. Many of these places had family members and children who were living overseas (Philippines, Japan, Korea, Spain, ect).
There might have been some editing of the film prints as AFRTS would make some "strange programing decision's" as the channel was to serve the entire family ot as there motto was "inform and entertain although the troops thought there motto was to inform and annoy. So yes its possible that AFRTS cut bits out of shows to insure "political correctness". AFRTS also showed stuff like Lost in Space, Star Trek and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea as well.
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Post by John Wall on Jan 18, 2014 10:40:19 GMT
As Neil Lambess pointed out, TIE was actually in a much better position to distribute these prints to Foreign Forces than the Aussies were. From what I can make out, TIE, and not the BBC, was responsible for initially sending pristine copies to countries and then the countries bicycled them around. (The BBC would obviously initially send copies to TIE)If however, a print was lost or damaged, it would have then presumably been TIE who replaced it. If this was the case, then TIE OBVIOUSLY held a spare copy of EVERY episode in its inventory in a building somewhere, that could then be copied for such a purpose. These Taiwanese prints, could therefore be Australian, Gibraltan (as they are the only other foreign country who match every episode found in Taiwan so far) or, copies of TIE's personal stock, or, the personal stock itself. Here we go again - more improbable scenarios invented to make finding prints more likely. There are two ways of being able to replace a print. (1) Double your production costs and storage requirements by having duplicate copies of everything made. (2) Strike a new print and send it out if required. One of these is the logical, and most likely, scenario.....
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