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Post by iwest on Jan 14, 2014 19:57:04 GMT
The other thing about TOTP in HD is the audio should be less compressed though I haven't checked if this is so. The down side is the broadcasts are in mono but by 1979 a lot of artists were miming so it's possible to synch to stereo remastered recordings. On satellite at least the bitrate for audio for BBC Four HD is actually lower (192 vs 224 kbps); however the audio on the HD streams is AC3 but MPEG on the SD streams. So comparing them on bitrate alone probably doesn't give you the whole story. But - as others have said- from a video point of view you'd expect to get less compression artifacts from the HD version, so that's probably what I'll continue to record for the time being. I watched the Xmas 1978 one from BBC Four HD and it did look slightly better to me than I'm used to with the SD versions, though that's obviously a fairly subjective comparison. But I'd expect the HD one to be the closest representation of what's on the BBC's master, which is the objective as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Dave Woods on Jan 14, 2014 20:49:17 GMT
The HD transport stream I recorded on Saturday appears to have two audio streams - one ac3 (192 kbps) and one mpeg2 (256 kbps), but I can't check them out from where I am at the moment.
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Post by iwest on Jan 14, 2014 23:16:12 GMT
Ahh yeah I forgot the 2nd audio stream; I think that one's usually used for the audio description track. I've got my PC set up to only record the AC3 track by default as if a program does feature audio description then the second track is fairly worthless due to all the dialogue being talked over top of (though I've no doubt it's a blessing for those who need it, obviously.) But in the case of a music show like Top of the Pops there's obviously not going to be audio description provided so the second track will just contain the same content as the AC3 track. Whether 256 kbps mpeg audio has more or less compression than 192 kbps AC3 I don't know though; I guess it's down to the relative efficiency of the codecs. But maybe I should see if I can adjust my software to record both audio tracks in future just to cover all bases.
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Post by nicadare on Jan 15, 2014 17:59:26 GMT
I believe that recording quality can not be determined simply by bit rate or file size it's the codec/s used which is the key. Some hard drive recorders can record in DR mode, DR stands for 'Direct Record.' What this means is that the machine does nothing at all to the incoming broadcast data. It records literally what is sent. When played back, the recording is exactly as was originally broadcast. Programmes such as TOTP on BBC4/BBC4 HD can be recorded onto a hard drive in DR mode then burnt directly to a blu ray with no loss in quality. If the recording quality is lowered before burning to the blu ray disc the file becomes larger, not smaller. Broadcasters can use sophisticated and expensive compression techniques in order to deliver the broadcast stream most efficiently. If at the receiving end, the material is decompressed into a form representing the original source, (which is what occurs when you convert)...and then is re-compressed, the file size is entirely dependent on the quality settings applied by the user. The quality of the original source has absolutely NO bearing whatsoever on the relative resulting file sizes. The compressor does not know, and takes no account of the original quality or filesize. It just applies the compression algorithms to whatever is fed into it.... according to the quality setting you have chosen. Below >>>> An episode of TOTP 1977 recorded directly onto DVD in standard definition (720 x 576) sourced from BBC4 Freeview shows a very high bit rate and large file size although these factors not necessarily determining the recordings actual quality.
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Post by David smothers on Jan 16, 2014 3:22:23 GMT
I can't watch anything not in the original ratio. I watch 4:3 pillar boxed and cinema ratios in letterbox. Though I don't go as far as some and watch old television on CRT. I do!! LOL I watch 90% old television, so Is still have my 27 inch CRT, it's a newer (2002) with the whole 3 line digital comb filter, so it looks amazingly good.
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Post by nicadare on Jan 17, 2014 17:42:01 GMT
I noticed on yesterdays TOTP broadcast there was no logo (dog) on either BBC4 or BBC4 HD
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Post by Dave Woods on Jan 17, 2014 20:19:07 GMT
I noticed on yesterdays TOTP broadcast there was no logo (dog) on either BBC4 or BBC4 HD But there was a weird rectangle in the top left hand corner visible throughout both showings on the SD channel - most clearly in the photos with a white background in the chart rundown. What was that about? It looked like someone had got rid of a DOG by covering that area of the screen with video of the same episode from a different source, but they hadn't attempted to blend the two bits together.
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Post by RossL on Jan 18, 2014 15:35:33 GMT
I noticed on yesterdays TOTP broadcast there was no logo (dog) on either BBC4 or BBC4 HD But there was a weird rectangle in the top left hand corner visible throughout both showings on the SD channel - most clearly in the photos with a white background in the chart rundown. What was that about? It looked like someone had got rid of a DOG by covering that area of the screen with video of the same episode from a different source, but they hadn't attempted to blend the two bits together. FWIW exactly the same rectangle was visible on 2 of the old Ealing films shown on tv over Christmas. Whisky Galore was one - I think the other one was Titfield Thunderbolt. It was horribly noticable on both of them.
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Post by Peter Roberts on Jan 18, 2014 22:23:40 GMT
I'd much rather see 4:3 material as it was originally intended: in 4:3! No stretching or bits removed from the top and bottom. I'm pleased to see that programme makers usually do it right these days (on the BBC at least). Its really an old wives tale that Pan's People look fat and parts of the picture go missing. The rules of reality dictate that conversion to widescreen without side bars will result in either the picture being stretched or bits going missing from the top & bottom. I do understand that viewing it stretched has certain advantages. If you're finding it looks distant as 4:3 the ideal answer would be to get a bigger TV.
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Post by Mark Leech on Jan 18, 2014 23:50:33 GMT
But there was a weird rectangle in the top left hand corner visible throughout both showings on the SD channel - most clearly in the photos with a white background in the chart rundown. What was that about? It looked like someone had got rid of a DOG by covering that area of the screen with video of the same episode from a different source, but they hadn't attempted to blend the two bits together. FWIW exactly the same rectangle was visible on 2 of the old Ealing films shown on tv over Christmas. Whisky Galore was one - I think the other one was Titfield Thunderbolt. It was horribly noticable on both of them. Watching the repeat of Slade at the BBC on BBC4 now and it exhibits the same issue!
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Post by RossL on Jan 19, 2014 10:59:45 GMT
Looks like the BBC have a playout issue - the Ealing films were on BBC4 as well.
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Post by Mark Leech on Jan 24, 2014 16:04:28 GMT
the Saturday night version of 11-1-79 had the BBC4 logo as normal I noticed
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Post by Pat Maher on Jan 25, 2014 2:25:01 GMT
hi guys a little off current theme but with the hairy cornflake in charge next week [25.01.79] i take it the BBC will protect us from any possible corruption anybody know the running order and what was on this show that we won't see again ?
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Post by iwest on Jan 25, 2014 10:04:38 GMT
hi guys a little off current theme but with the hairy cornflake in charge next week [25.01.79] i take it the BBC will protect us from any possible corruption anybody know the running order and what was on this show that we won't see again ? This should answer all your questions: vimeo.com/84939936
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Post by RossL on Jan 25, 2014 11:14:19 GMT
Great stuff - Ive not seen most of the TOTP episodes there. Many thanks
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