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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 6, 2013 20:53:21 GMT
We are indeed fortunate to have them, if anything I think the incompetent idiots are the fans having a go at them. Be patient and if we're lucky we'll get some news.
While we are discussing random rumours, another one has popped up about some episodes being ready for release or close to it at any rate. The batch is seemingly Marco Polo episodes 1 and 2, The Web of Fear episode 3 and one or two episodes from The Power of the Daleks. Four or five episodes it far more feasible and is actually theoretically possible, which is better than some of the stories floating around, whether the specifics is right or not is another matter (although the story comes with the catch that we'll be lucky if we've heard anything before 2014).
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 6, 2013 21:09:13 GMT
We are indeed fortunate to have them, if anything I think the incompetent idiots are the fans having a go at them. Be patient and if we're lucky we'll get some news. While we are discussing random rumours, another one has popped up about some episodes being ready for release or close to it at any rate. The batch is seemingly Marco Polo episodes 1 and 2, The Web of Fear episode 3 and one or two episodes from The Power of the Daleks. Four or five episodes it far more feasible and is actually theoretically possible, which is better than some of the stories floating around, whether the specifics is right or not is another matter (although the story comes with the catch that we'll be lucky if we've heard anything before 2014). The only thing that pops into mind when you say Marco 1 and 2 is "Iran". I'd take the various details floating about with a pinch of salt
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Post by John Wall on Dec 6, 2013 21:50:24 GMT
It is important to remember that the situation isn't static, there are people out there looking and following up leads all the time.
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 6, 2013 22:57:58 GMT
We are indeed fortunate to have them, if anything I think the incompetent idiots are the fans having a go at them. Be patient and if we're lucky we'll get some news. While we are discussing random rumours, another one has popped up about some episodes being ready for release or close to it at any rate. The batch is seemingly Marco Polo episodes 1 and 2, The Web of Fear episode 3 and one or two episodes from The Power of the Daleks. Four or five episodes it far more feasible and is actually theoretically possible, which is better than some of the stories floating around, whether the specifics is right or not is another matter (although the story comes with the catch that we'll be lucky if we've heard anything before 2014). The only thing that pops into mind when you say Marco 1 and 2 is "Iran". I'd take the various details floating about with a pinch of salt I think the thing that raised my suspicions was when the guy said they were being covered by several contracts and the likes to try and cover it up. But he went and posted it on Twitter for all to see.
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Post by Giles Parsons on Dec 7, 2013 0:23:27 GMT
I think Philip Morris may have found the odd episode of DW in Africa. But if he'd found loads of complete serials like we have been led to believe, then they'd hardly have slated an INCOMPLETE serial for release. The no-brainer thing to do in that instance would have been to hold off WOF in case the remaining episode turned up, otherwise there is a huge risk of embarassment at a later stage when the BBC has to say, "Sorry we made you buy the incomplete WOF dvd, but now we've since found episode 3 and so you'll have to buy it again." People would be screaming mad if that happened and it turned out there had been loads of alternative stories that could have been released. The Power Of The Daleks is every bit as much a classic as The Web Of Fear, so I don't believe the claim that the latter was chosen regardless of being incomplete simply because of its cult status.
So unless you think that episode 3 is secretly being held over for the dvd (which everyone associated with it says it's not and they've no earthly reason to lie about it) then that's a pretty difficult logical hurdle to get over.
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Post by Matthew Kurth on Dec 7, 2013 0:57:45 GMT
What the heck is up with the resurfacing of the chestnut that Feast of Steven was given to Hartnell after broadcast?
Apart from the thought that the BBC wouldn't just up and give him a film print of a full episode, wasn't this thoroughly debunked as being a 12 minute extract from Dalek Invasion of Earth that he was given?
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 7, 2013 1:03:29 GMT
I think Philip Morris may have found the odd episode of DW in Africa. But if he'd found loads of complete serials like we have been led to believe, then they'd hardly have slated an INCOMPLETE serial for release. The no-brainer thing to do in that instance would have been to hold off WOF in case the remaining episode turned up, otherwise there is a huge risk of embarassment at a later stage when the BBC has to say, "Sorry we made you buy the incomplete WOF dvd, but now we've since found episode 3 and so you'll have to buy it again." People would be screaming mad if that happened and it turned out there had been loads of alternative stories that could have been released. The Power Of The Daleks is every bit as much a classic as The Web Of Fear, so I don't believe the claim that the latter was chosen regardless of being incomplete simply because of its cult status. So unless you think that episode 3 is secretly being held over for the dvd (which everyone associated with it says it's not and they've no earthly reason to lie about it) then that's a pretty difficult logical hurdle to get over. Not really, it depends when they were discovered. For all we know they may have found Web 3 very late on, perhaps far too late to be added to the total or not at all. At the end of the day everyone associated with it will be keeping quiet out of fear for their jobs, regardless of what has actually happened. What you are suggesting is probably part of the reason why everything is being broken up if the Omni-rumour is true, we've had animations produced for various stories. The fans may be more generous with The Invasion but what if they had found The Tenth Planet, and now the BBC have released the DVD with animation twice. Are they going to roll out a third release? Of course not, or at least not for the foreseeable future. Everything with the rumour is a mess regardless of how you look at it. My best guess would be these nine episodes were announced together because they were the first to be found and as a result were the first to be ready. If Web 3 was indeed found, then what if something else was found with it. They would need to restore that as well and restoration takes time, and may very well have pushed it beyond the ideal date for announcing the recovery. As with all these things we need to wait and see and stop jumping to conclusions, we have very few facts and won't get many more until whatever Mr Morris is up to is finished which could be years away for all we know depending on the circumstances (that doesn't mean more Doctor Who necessarily, although it does suggest some sort of recovery for one or more of a huge potential number of shows of which Doctor Who is a part).
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 7, 2013 1:03:41 GMT
It is important to remember that the situation isn't static, there are people out there looking and following up leads all the time. Maybe that's the problem, John. We ought to take a leaf out of Maxtible and Waterfield's book! Get ourselves a cupboard full of mirrors, line the floor with carpet, have Phil step inside and rub his feet against it, zap an empty film can and voilĂ ! 97 missing episodes returned! Might need to sort out a patent issue with the Whitaker estate, but I'm sure they'll play ball!
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Post by Michael Grey on Dec 7, 2013 1:10:41 GMT
All these rumors is making me feel very nostelgic, it's like the 80's and early 90's all over again. I hope we find out soon either way I'm at a loss to even know which might be true or not.
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Post by Neil Lambess on Dec 7, 2013 2:35:57 GMT
As the audio of every missing episode survives why should that be a problem for "Power" ? Mark Ayres can easily cut and paste the soundtrack. All this suggests is that whoever is behind that rumour doesn't know what they're talking about. the problem would be that the speed of the audio tape soundtrack would be different to any recovered film print , so that it wouldnt be a simple cut and paste job , (depending on how much the two recording speeds differed , how consistent the audio recording speed was...., tape stretch on the audio tape over the years and so on.... all of which would extend the time of the match up) if in theory any recovered episodes needed the audios atched to them that is !
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Post by Neil Lambess on Dec 7, 2013 3:15:03 GMT
I agree that there may be some time between actually locating episodes and getting them back to the UK but I cannot contemplate the time between arrival and conservation/cleaning/stabilisation being any longer than absolutely necessary. I agree John , but having been directly involved in a recovery , there are always unforseen problems , for example when we found the Lion in 99 (which was the last overseas return) Paul Scones paid the considerable international postage from NZ out of his own pocket , based on an assurance that it would be refunded....unfortunatly due to the structures of the BBC at the time , no department wanted to take responsibility for the cost of the return to the BBC itself....and it was about 9 months later that Paul actually got his money refunded.... (By Steve Roberts own pockets if memory serves ....I still dont know if the BBC ever refunded Steve tho !) Not only that but the BBC also threatened the prints owner with legal action if he tried to sell it at auction , which unfortunetly generated a lot of Negative publicity in the Media. I hasten to add that it wasnt a deliberate attempt by anyone at the BBC to not refund Paul , but a result of the orginasational structure of the BBC and the interface between worldwide and all its other divisions.... at the time Paul , I and Bruce mentioned the issues to varying degrees in the Media and Fan publications , and at the time we all said we wouldnt return anything else we had found without been Paid our recovery costs first . (we were all quite pissed off , both Paul and I had spent quite a bit of money to ,respectivley, find and return the Lion in good faith and good will, and Bruce was been threated with legal action, (FWIW I tracked down the Lion by spending a full week 190kms away from home, with all the transport,food and accomadation costs involved , but hey ...it was worth it and thats my gift to fandom ! ) unfortunatly tho , the difficulties we had have now become part of the missing episodes folklore , and while its all true that the Beeb did the above , its probably made other people more wary of just sending stuff back out of their own pocket. which is a shame While i hope , the situation today is, as you suggest , that the BBC would immediatley pay the nessecary recovery costs , to get stuff back asap for restoration. my own personal experience is that if Paul hadnt paid the money himself to get the print back to the UK, it would have taken the better part of a year or more for a department to take the responsibilty and find the finance for it .
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 7, 2013 3:31:52 GMT
One hopes that this was a learning experience for the Beeb, Neil - it's a win-win for them to keep onside those who go the extra mile to secure and return lost material. Likely there's now a more streamlined process for the administration of returns and the like, eliminating the surely unwitting nuisances you and your mates had to go through for The Lion! Hopefully they didn't give Steve Roberts a credit note from the BBC canteen to cover his out of pocket!
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Post by Dan Kolb on Dec 7, 2013 3:47:37 GMT
I agree that there may be some time between actually locating episodes and getting them back to the UK but I cannot contemplate the time between arrival and conservation/cleaning/stabilisation being any longer than absolutely necessary. I agree John , but having been directly involved in a recovery , there are always unforseen problems , for example when we found the Lion in 99 (which was the last overseas return) Paul Scones paid the considerable international postage from NZ out of his own pocket , based on an assurance that it would be refunded....unfortunatly due to the structures of the BBC at the time , no department wanted to take responsibility for the cost of the return to the BBC itself....and it was about 9 months later that Paul actually got his money refunded.... (By Steve Roberts own pockets if memory serves ....I still dont know if the BBC ever refunded Steve tho !) Not only that but the BBC also threatened the prints owner with legal action if he tried to sell it at auction , which unfortunetly generated a lot of Negative publicity in the Media. I hasten to add that it wasnt a deliberate attempt by anyone at the BBC to not refund Paul , but a result of the orginasational structure of the BBC and the interface between worldwide and all its other divisions.... at the time Paul , I and Bruce mentioned the issues to varying degrees in the Media and Fan publications , and at the time we all said we wouldnt return anything else we had found without been Paid our recovery costs first . (we were all quite pissed off , both Paul and I had spent quite a bit of money to ,respectivley, find and return the Lion in good faith and good will, and Bruce was been threated with legal action, (FWIW I tracked down the Lion by spending a full week 190kms away from home, with all the transport,food and accomadation costs involved , but hey ...it was worth it and thats my gift to fandom ! ) unfortunatly tho , the difficulties we had have now become part of the missing episodes folklore , and while its all true that the Beeb did the above , its probably made other people more wary of just sending stuff back out of their own pocket. which is a shame While i hope , the situation today is, as you suggest , that the BBC would immediatley pay the nessecary recovery costs , to get stuff back asap for restoration. my own personal experience is that if Paul hadnt paid the money himself to get the print back to the UK, it would have taken the better part of a year or more for a department to take the responsibilty and find the finance for it . And you would have thought that between the establishment of the F&VT Library in 1978 and 1999, a better structure would have already been established!? In any case, I thank you for your efforts and enjoyed 'The Lion' immensely.
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Post by jamief on Dec 7, 2013 12:23:15 GMT
I agree that there may be some time between actually locating episodes and getting them back to the UK but I cannot contemplate the time between arrival and conservation/cleaning/stabilisation being any longer than absolutely necessary. I agree John , but having been directly involved in a recovery , there are always unforseen problems , for example when we found the Lion in 99 (which was the last overseas return) Paul Scones paid the considerable international postage from NZ out of his own pocket , based on an assurance that it would be refunded....unfortunatly due to the structures of the BBC at the time , no department wanted to take responsibility for the cost of the return to the BBC itself....and it was about 9 months later that Paul actually got his money refunded.... (By Steve Roberts own pockets if memory serves ....I still dont know if the BBC ever refunded Steve tho !) Not only that but the BBC also threatened the prints owner with legal action if he tried to sell it at auction , which unfortunetly generated a lot of Negative publicity in the Media. I hasten to add that it wasnt a deliberate attempt by anyone at the BBC to not refund Paul , but a result of the orginasational structure of the BBC and the interface between worldwide and all its other divisions.... at the time Paul , I and Bruce mentioned the issues to varying degrees in the Media and Fan publications , and at the time we all said we wouldnt return anything else we had found without been Paid our recovery costs first . (we were all quite pissed off , both Paul and I had spent quite a bit of money to ,respectivley, find and return the Lion in good faith and good will, and Bruce was been threated with legal action, (FWIW I tracked down the Lion by spending a full week 190kms away from home, with all the transport,food and accomadation costs involved , but hey ...it was worth it and thats my gift to fandom ! ) unfortunatly tho , the difficulties we had have now become part of the missing episodes folklore , and while its all true that the Beeb did the above , its probably made other people more wary of just sending stuff back out of their own pocket. which is a shame While i hope , the situation today is, as you suggest , that the BBC would immediatley pay the nessecary recovery costs , to get stuff back asap for restoration. my own personal experience is that if Paul hadnt paid the money himself to get the print back to the UK, it would have taken the better part of a year or more for a department to take the responsibilty and find the finance for it . I've been a member of this forum for over a decade but in recent years, I've only been a lurker having lost access to my previous account after a year or two without internet access. Neil's post has just forced me to register again because I really wanted to say thank you to Neil and everyone else involved in the recovery of The Lion. This episode is very special to me. I think I was in my early teens and just becoming aware of how amazing Doctor Who was and seeing The Crusade/The Space Museum box set in Virgin... Suffice to say I bought it, rushed home from town but found myself locked out of the house as my family were out so I sat in the back garden and looked at the pictures, postcards and read the video sleeve notes... My eyes were opened to this new exciting world of black and white Doctor Who and missing episodes. When I got inside and watched it, I couldn't believe how much I loved the episode. That initial scene in the forest... Wow! To this day, The Crusade remains my favourite Doctor Who story of all-time! So thank you once again for the recovery but also securing my enthusiasm for the series!
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Dec 7, 2013 13:06:43 GMT
I agree John , but having been directly involved in a recovery , there are always unforseen problems , for example when we found the Lion in 99 (which was the last overseas return) Paul Scones paid the considerable international postage from NZ out of his own pocket , based on an assurance that it would be refunded....unfortunatly due to the structures of the BBC at the time , no department wanted to take responsibility for the cost of the return to the BBC itself....and it was about 9 months later that Paul actually got his money refunded.... (By Steve Roberts own pockets if memory serves ....I still dont know if the BBC ever refunded Steve tho !) I would just like to say, Steve, if you're reading this, that if you really were left out of pocket speak up (or PM me). It's not fair for you to bear the brunt of this and I'm happy to contribute. Richard
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