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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Dec 5, 2013 23:20:31 GMT
I always got the sense that what Ian was referring to was the Africa Search itself which started about three years ago. Not particularly any find that occurred three years ago. Otherwise he wouldn't have done that early "These rumors are rubbish" tweet followed by the "OMG it's all true!" tweet.
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Post by Dan Kolb on Dec 5, 2013 23:31:05 GMT
DWA posted a very interesting exchange between Ian Levine, Tom Spilsbury and Jan Vincent-Rudzki with the interesting line from Levine about how "I have kept quiet for THREE BLOODY YEARS and you accuse ME of screwing up their plans." I draw a few conclusions from this: 1. Something is STILL under negotiation. 2. Something has been going on for about 3 years. 3. Ian Levine has been an absolutely terrific person in finding all those missing episodes way back when. 4. Ian Levine has also got to learn to stop behaving like a 12-year-old having a sugar crash. I'm sorry. That's not me trying to gang up on him, but the search for episodes is not helped by screaming matches and drama. That you found a lot of missing episodes is a nice accomplishment, but it doesn't give you any say over how other people handle THEIR episodes (if any). We would ALL like to know what is going on. I would even settle for someone simply officially announcing, "We can't tell you much, but yes, there are some goodies coming." I wonder who "They" are exactly. BBC? TIEA? Both? The Daleks? It reads to me like Ian knew about... That is usually the way his posts read - after the fact...
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 6, 2013 0:15:20 GMT
As I've said before, there's no way Marco Polo will be fully restored yet, never mind have The Massacre ready as well (provided of course that when they gave the dates for restoration it was this year of course and wasn't really 2011 or 2012, that would be a pretty big shock).
These lists are all just a compilation of various rumours, not one big one and they make that fairly clear in their articles that these are just rumours and shouldn't be taken as facts.
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Post by dougp on Dec 6, 2013 12:24:03 GMT
I have a good feeling that eps are out there some yet to return some being worked on...
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Post by Simon Jailler on Dec 6, 2013 14:01:14 GMT
Something worrying I keep reading about is old film starting to smell like vinegar.My nightmare is that these old stories have been sitting around for decades waiting to be found but it may prove to be that after all this time, the content of these cans of wonders are now beyond recovery.
Does n't it make sense for the Beeb et all to check all the finds thoroughly and exhaustively try to salvage what remains before dashing everyones' hopes? There's not much point making an announcement which catalogues every recovered missing episode if some of the film for those episodes proves to be beyond use. An episode is only truly recovered if you, me and everyone else can watch it via download or DVD.
It's beyond my wildest dreams that nearly all of WOF is recovered and EOTW has proved to be far better than I ever thought (it previously seemed so dull that I skipped its Target novelisation). I love that scene where Pat Troughton jumps into the sea, a scene I never knew even existed. These ominirumours will never take all that joy away from me but I do wish the people pedalling them would take more care, even when they are caveated as being 'just' rumours albeit with a smidgin of fact liberally applied to the reporting of them.
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Post by John Wall on Dec 6, 2013 14:59:33 GMT
Something worrying I keep reading about is old film starting to smell like vinegar.My nightmare is that these old stories have been sitting around for decades waiting to be found but it may prove to be that after all this time, the content of these cans of wonders are now beyond recovery. Does n't it make sense for the Beeb et all to check all the finds thoroughly and exhaustively try to salvage what remains before dashing everyones' hopes? There's not much point making an announcement which catalogues every recovered missing episode if some of the film for those episodes proves to be beyond use. An episode is only truly recovered if you, me and everyone else can watch it via download or DVD. It's beyond my wildest dreams that nearly all of WOF is recovered and EOTW has proved to be far better than I ever thought (it previously seemed so dull that I skipped its Target novelisation). I love that scene where Pat Troughton jumps into the sea, a scene I never knew even existed. These ominirumours will never take all that joy away from me but I do wish the people pedalling them would take more care, even when they are caveated as being 'just' rumours albeit with a smidgin of fact liberally applied to the reporting of them. If you read the DWM article the first person in the UK who knew about EotW and WoF was Paul Vanezis so that the prints could be cleaned/conserved/stabilised. The actual restoration, ie removal of scratches, etc didn't start until about a month later. That's why I give little credence to the conspiracy theorists who claim that Philip Morris found EotW and WoF a long time ago and, for various weird and wonderful reasons, "stashed" them. He's put a lot of time and effort - together with some personal risk - in searching what is almost a war zone and, surely, the first thing you do if you find a priceless Troughton is to get it into the hands of a specialist ?
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Post by Simon Jailler on Dec 6, 2013 15:29:01 GMT
Something worrying I keep reading about is old film starting to smell like vinegar.My nightmare is that these old stories have been sitting around for decades waiting to be found but it may prove to be that after all this time, the content of these cans of wonders are now beyond recovery. Does n't it make sense for the Beeb et all to check all the finds thoroughly and exhaustively try to salvage what remains before dashing everyones' hopes? There's not much point making an announcement which catalogues every recovered missing episode if some of the film for those episodes proves to be beyond use. An episode is only truly recovered if you, me and everyone else can watch it via download or DVD. It's beyond my wildest dreams that nearly all of WOF is recovered and EOTW has proved to be far better than I ever thought (it previously seemed so dull that I skipped its Target novelisation). I love that scene where Pat Troughton jumps into the sea, a scene I never knew even existed. These ominirumours will never take all that joy away from me but I do wish the people pedalling them would take more care, even when they are caveated as being 'just' rumours albeit with a smidgin of fact liberally applied to the reporting of them. If you read the DWM article the first person in the UK who knew about EotW and WoF was Paul Vanezis so that the prints could be cleaned/conserved/stabilised. The actual restoration, ie removal of scratches, etc didn't start until about a month later. That's why I give little credence to the conspiracy theorists who claim that Philip Morris found EotW and WoF a long time ago and, for various weird and wonderful reasons, "stashed" them. He's put a lot of time and effort - together with some personal risk - in searching what is almost a war zone and, surely, the first thing you do if you find a priceless Troughton is to get it into the hands of a specialist ? Hello John. Not sure why you've linked to my post. EOTW and Web may in truth be the only actual finds and nothing else has been found. On the other hand, more material may also have been handed over at the same time as those stories or subsequently. I'm not really interested in when stories were returned, only in hearing officially that something new has been recovered and is in safe hands or better still, being able to watch it. My point is (such as it is) is that there is undoubtedly at least one good reason for the Beeb or anyone else officially in the know not to be prepared as yet to break any news. I make no apologies for my lack of knowledge of film restoration techniques but fortunately there are plenty of knowledgable posters here who are very generous with their time and sharing some inside knowledge. I also believe that it's marvellous that someone is going to a lot of effort to track down missing episodes and I hope the passage of time and poor storage conditions (prior to him/her/them being able to gain possession of the film) do not defeat those best efforts.
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Post by John Wall on Dec 6, 2013 16:11:13 GMT
If, and it's a big if, other things have been recovered I have little doubt that Paul, or someone as competent, will have done whatever is necessary to prevent any further deterioration. From the DWM article this is far easier than removal of scratches, etc. There does seem to be a view in some parts of fandom that the RT, et al are a bunch of incompetent idiots who have no idea what to do. Fortunately, that isn't true
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Post by Simon Jailler on Dec 6, 2013 16:35:45 GMT
Amen to your final sentiment John. Very silly indeed to badmouth their efforts - it's painstaking work that brings untold joy to all us Classic Who fans.
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Post by scotttelfer on Dec 6, 2013 16:36:13 GMT
Something worrying I keep reading about is old film starting to smell like vinegar.My nightmare is that these old stories have been sitting around for decades waiting to be found but it may prove to be that after all this time, the content of these cans of wonders are now beyond recovery. Does n't it make sense for the Beeb et all to check all the finds thoroughly and exhaustively try to salvage what remains before dashing everyones' hopes? There's not much point making an announcement which catalogues every recovered missing episode if some of the film for those episodes proves to be beyond use. An episode is only truly recovered if you, me and everyone else can watch it via download or DVD. It's beyond my wildest dreams that nearly all of WOF is recovered and EOTW has proved to be far better than I ever thought (it previously seemed so dull that I skipped its Target novelisation). I love that scene where Pat Troughton jumps into the sea, a scene I never knew even existed. These ominirumours will never take all that joy away from me but I do wish the people pedalling them would take more care, even when they are caveated as being 'just' rumours albeit with a smidgin of fact liberally applied to the reporting of them. If you read the DWM article the first person in the UK who knew about EotW and WoF was Paul Vanezis so that the prints could be cleaned/conserved/stabilised. The actual restoration, ie removal of scratches, etc didn't start until about a month later. That's why I give little credence to the conspiracy theorists who claim that Philip Morris found EotW and WoF a long time ago and, for various weird and wonderful reasons, "stashed" them. He's put a lot of time and effort - together with some personal risk - in searching what is almost a war zone and, surely, the first thing you do if you find a priceless Troughton is to get it into the hands of a specialist ? Well it depends on a variety of things, for example how long it took to get it into the hands of the BBC and exactly when they restored it, but you would think it wouldn't take that long. Of course, it is possible the conspiracy theorists are right, and that would possibly suggest that the dates of restoration have been misinterpreted. They say for instance that all of Paul Vanezis' work on The Web of Fear was done on the 31st of May, but what year? It's fairly safe to assume they mean 2013, but it could very well be 2012 for all we know (which would actually fit into one of the theories), however I am doubtful. Unless there really is a big announcement of a considerable size fairly shortly I would stick with late 2012/early 2013 recovery and a 2013 restoration. However, I doubt he's "stashed" them as some claim, it may just be that some take a while to get over to the UK due to prolonged negotiations.
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Post by John Wall on Dec 6, 2013 17:08:35 GMT
I agree that there may be some time between actually locating episodes and getting them back to the UK but I cannot contemplate the time between arrival and conservation/cleaning/stabilisation being any longer than absolutely necessary.
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Simon Collis
Member
I have started to dream of lost things
Posts: 536
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Post by Simon Collis on Dec 6, 2013 19:33:46 GMT
There does seem to be a view in some parts of fandom that the RT, et al are a bunch of incompetent idiots who have no idea what to do. Fortunately, that isn't true If you read the RT website that pretty quickly dispels any thoughts along those lines. It didn't take me long to realise these guys were pretty much the A team, and they were doing things nobody else in the world was doing. In my view, Dr Who is lucky to have specialists like these guys!
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Post by John Wall on Dec 6, 2013 19:39:40 GMT
Amen to your final sentiment John. Very silly indeed to badmouth their efforts - it's painstaking work that brings untold joy to all us Classic Who fans. We're very fortunate to have them
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Post by Will Weller on Dec 6, 2013 20:46:09 GMT
I'm finding it hard to except that the Daleks' Masterplan has been found in full. I think this rumour may be 100% false. But I'm being honest, I don't like to talk about possible recoveries until Paul or Phil confirms it to be true or rubbish!
Now excuse me everyone while I go and get my copy of "The Invasion 4" from the secret compartment from behind my Doctor Who DVD collection...
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Post by John Wall on Dec 6, 2013 20:49:20 GMT
Never believe something until it's been officially denied
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