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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 5, 2013 1:32:38 GMT
There was a flavour of Peter Capaldi's new Dr.during the superb Imagine documentary on Machiavelli last night.Peter was shown reciting key statements from 'The Prince',Machiavelli's bible for would-be dictators-and God,was he excellent!By the intensity of his performance and presence,he will make a stunning 12th Doctor.Let's just hope he gets the scripts to match,because he will and should be a dark incarnation of the character. Sounds intriguing, Jaspal! They won't turn Who into a baddie, we all know that - that's what the Master is for. (When tried, a la the Valeyard and War Doctor, they wimp out so he sucks at it. I hope they'll stop it now.) But if for the first time in many years, we aren't always entirely sure exactly how he'll react or necessarily why when he does, I'm all in. And if he stops being cutesy-poo, so much the better. A bit of reserve, a bit of grit, a bit of danger, a bit of action, a bit of authority and (gasp) a bit of mystery? That's my Doctor. Just give him scripts to make that revitalization of the lead shine through, and I think we're going to see a very different, very exciting, and very successful new era for Who come 2014. What will Capaldi's Doctor be like? It's an interesting puzzle! I think that'll emerge, just as did for Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee. Those three variations on the role evolved from their initial outing to the more nuanced styles we saw later. Still, we know a little already that offers some ideas to consider. He's the oldest Doctor. That may make his body start feeling its years for the first time in a very long time. But it might also make him a bit more impatient, sometimes even reckless. The fluid link gambit we saw in The Dead Planet might be something we see evidenced in his new personality, being supremely confident and not willing to take no for an answer. He's also the most experienced. That could make battles the earlier incarnations had trouble with be something he could plot out and breezily discharge from a hammock with a cool drink in hand, or even in the most abstruse and seemingly disconnected ways. These combinations may increase the tension between him and those who seek his aid, as he appears cold, disinterested and even lazy when instead he's merely solving the problem as fast as he can, with the least amount of risk or bloodshed, thereby letting him get on to go do something else that requires his attention - even if it is only to ride a particular ferris wheel at a certain park in a certain point in time to indirectly avert a looming crisis from turning into a full-scale disaster. The hand-holding and blubbing and stuff, he leaves to his companions to attend to - Watson's tea and sympathy approach to Holmes being distant and inscrutable, even rude at times. Which is not to say the Doctor would be unfeeling or emotionless, he just would be more reticent about letting people know too much about his thoughts and feelings. Knowledge is power, and he prefers to be an enigma, at least until he feels comfortable. That could vary from minutes to centuries depending on his mood or the person or the place. Old favorites might be surprised to learn that their expectations are suddenly and irretrievably shattered. "Sorry, that bloke's dead - and I'm not interested." Which is not to say he would necessarily be averse to bragging a bit or telling tall tales, as was the case in the past, perhaps he'd be more inclined to do so, just that sometimes he might slip the odd truth in there a little less frequently. And all these changes would surely also take a little getting used to for those who knew him before. Ben was hardly impressed or convinced when Troughton first appeared! He may even try to get rid of them, dumping them back home in a flash, but find he needs them for reasons he won't say but hopes they'll misunderstand in a helpful fashion to save an awkward conversation that they might not like to hear. I've heard notions he may keep Matt's offsider and gain a bloke. Maybe they could be siblings for a change, a la John and Gillian? Heck, how long has it been since the Doctor had a relation aboard? Anything to shake up the "seen it recently" dynamic would be fine with me! In time, his transition to his new life may take things down a peg - perhaps the settling-in phase for this change won't be a few minutes of mania but be more subtle and longer-lasting - but ultimately, his friends and foes will recognize at once that he's not like he was, yet even truer to himself than he's ever been.
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Post by mattplace on Dec 5, 2013 1:37:12 GMT
please ban overuse of the emoticons!!
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 5, 2013 1:55:23 GMT
Colin Baker's Doctor,(despite some older fans,who had no problem with a absurdly long scarf, going into silly vocal 'meltdown' over a multi coloured coat) was actually very popular with youngsters when he appeared with Peri on a BBC kids show phone in & later when he did the Dr.Who theatre production (...) Colin's Doctor was inside Golden Wonder multi-packs of crisps, too! www.richardwho.com/collectors/vuser/index.asp?u=131Have any of the later models been connected to snack food promotion in this way? If there ever was an American spin-off or ongoing co-pro (McGann Adventures, perhaps helmed by Moffat to let Gatiss try his hand at running Who?) I think this would be everywhere. Maybe even Who cereal! Little marshmallow TARDISes and Daleks!
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 5, 2013 2:02:57 GMT
please ban overuse of the emoticons!! What about banning use of all lower-case posts? Or requests for bans on the basis of stylistic dispute? Relative to the number of characters in my posts, emoticons take up a pretty small percentage of the total. If you have in mind the institution of an upper bound of an allowance of how many emoticons per member per post per thread per day, that seems a bit SRS to me...
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Post by mattplace on Dec 5, 2013 2:36:35 GMT
26 in 3 posts.. its alot Like the overuse of "naughty words'.. they lose their impact... even the "c" word is common on tv these days.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 5, 2013 2:47:06 GMT
26 in 3 posts.. its alot Like the overuse of "naughty words'.. they lose their impact... even the "c" word is common on tv these days. Really, Matt? I should watch more of it. As to the frequency of emoticons in my posts, regardless of length, is this all you can derive from them? If so, maybe they aren't suitable for you. Feel free to PM me with further stylistic advice as the mood strikes you!
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Post by mattplace on Dec 5, 2013 4:29:10 GMT
Maybe im becoming a Cyberman.. Removing weaknesses such as emoticons(except from revenge for some reason)
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 5, 2013 10:26:43 GMT
Maybe im becoming a Cyberman.. Removing weaknesses such as emoticons(except from revenge for some reason) Well Matt, so long as this stupid Earthbrain isn't Cyberconverted for his use of emoticons, I'll not break the glass case holding the emergency glitter gun!
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Post by Patrick Coles on Dec 5, 2013 16:56:38 GMT
One point - I'd like to see Peter Capaldi hopefully bring back some DIGNITY to the character of The Doctor !
While it's true that Patrick Troughton was a somewhat 'comical' looking figure Pat nevertheless gave great gravitas to his portrayal thus he was never 'too silly' or not to be taken seriously, maybe third Doctor era writers Bob Baker & Dave Martin got that aspect wrong later in 'The Three Doctors' a bit as The Brigadier while respectful of the Third Doctor seemed to be far 'too dismissive' of the Second Doctor which on watching 'The Web of Fear' or 'The (Cybermen) Invasion' he clearly wasn't before...nor was he later in 'The Five Doctors' as Terrance Dicks clearly got the Second Doctor / Brigadier mutual respect and friendship relationship right !
but later, some of Tom Baker & Colin Baker's weaker stories rather let The Doctor down re his dignity, and poor old Slyv McCoy was almost ordered to: 'BE SILLY !!'
moving onto the present version of the show, we had Chris Eccleston pratting about to Soft Cell, and giving silly grins...then David Tennant 'hanging out of his Police box' as it sped up the motorway (yeah...), plus gurning about with a radiation filled boot in the hospital up on the moon (yeah...) - he's now doing much the same in those Virgin Media TV Commercials for Branson too
now we have Matt Smith 'hanging out of his Police box' as it dangles from a helicopter (Deja Vu ?) and imitating Norman Wisdom or Harold Lloyd...pure slapstick !
Yet one of the greatest strengths of looking back at William Hartnell's Doctor, an elderly figure who often got his words wrong...was his overall strength of character, just a glare and a line like; 'A Dandy and a Clown...' put his two successors firmly in their place - yes he had an offbeat sense of humour but not where danger threatened, and his defiant address to that Dalek early on in 'Dalek Invasion of Earth' was supreme - the Dalek almost 'flinched' !
Jon Pertwee's Doctor was almost always dignified (bar dressing up as a cleaning lady once !)
Peter Davison had a youthful but dignified stance too...
I think one problem re an even younger Doctor(s) is somehow the sense of a more dignified and powerful minded alien character can get lost amid trying to be 'mega cool' all the time...plus then doing all the 'goofy stuff' to seem 'with it' for the precieved target audience...
Hopefully Peter Capaldi can bring some sense of a deeper more dramatic character, that is the 'random element' causing the foe's downfall, which would restore the Doctor's more compelling place in the adventures...making him more the mysterious enigmatic figure who is a 'wanderer in the fourth dimension...walking in eternity' etc
a goonish slapstick twerp hanging out of a Police box in mid air loses a hell of a lot of credibility, especially when it's all been done before...
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 6, 2013 3:56:31 GMT
Yes, I agree Patrick - the lead character's tone is something in need of a serious review for Capaldi's innings. Troughton was as different to Hartnell as Pertwee was from Tom as they all were from each other - this is how it should be, makes sense to be. Strength through difference! Yet when watching TDOTD there wasn't for me any of the sort of clashing we'd expect from previous multi-Doctor appearences. (I recall Smith referred to it as "Laurel and Laurel"!) I couldn't ever imagine Terrance wanting to write The Five Doctors if all those different incarnations had the same attitude, the same basic persona. Who would?! It'd be dull to write and murder to watch. Even when Colin and Pat teamed up in The Two Doctors, we saw some rather enjoyable friction. To get more of that, we need to see incarnations that are actually not retreads of the previous few models just wearing different clothes and faces. The genial Doctor type is something we've seen in the past - but only as a contrast to others. Somehow, it's a persona that's become stuck like the police box as the standard shape! When everything else is static, it's just one more burden the show need not bear. Shaking up our expectations as to what the Doctor can be like will give Capaldi a chance to come into his own. For mine, I'd prefer to see more of Hartnell's cunning and bull-headedness, Pertwee's dynamism, Colin's pricklyness and McCoy's scheming. A proactive, truly independent, anti-authority figure! An enigmatic and authoritative Doctor who is very old, very capable, very experienced, very impatient and very easily underestimated by enemies (and sometimes friends) until he wins out, by his own rules. Someone not so accessible, more reserved - and all the more interesting because we are kept a little off-balance as to how he'll react, and why - and make us challenge how well we know what we think we know about him, just through his performance rather than some duff "mysterious" or "tragic" backstory or a zillion decorative question marks! Not to say he has to grind his teeth in every scene or clobber every thug in sight, just to swing the pendulum back a bit the other way - for a long overdue change from "cuddly toy" Doctors.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 7, 2013 7:01:02 GMT
Going from the very brief and carefully composed snippet of Capaldi in TDOTD, I think it's a safe bet he's not got a full beard - least, his sideburns don't suggest it. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p01m3p7zAs for a mustache or goatee or equivalent - I think that is very much a prospect that's still in with a chance. The intense, almost snarly glare looks interesting - here's hoping that this isn't misdirection but leads to that substantial variation I and others here are longing for!
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Post by edhipkiss on Dec 7, 2013 11:24:57 GMT
It's also interesting that when talking about Capaldi's casting, Moffatt stated that last time around he fleeting crossed his mind but decided he wasn't the right fit. But this time he thought, maybe...
Which suggests to me he IS thinking of going in a slightly different direction with the new Doctor. Hopefully that direction will be a more Pertwee-esque take on the character.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 7, 2013 12:03:15 GMT
It's also interesting that when talking about Capaldi's casting, Moffatt stated that last time around he fleeting crossed his mind but decided he wasn't the right fit. But this time he thought, maybe... Which suggests to me he IS thinking of going in a slightly different direction with the new Doctor. Hopefully that direction will be a more Pertwee-esque take on the character. If that means Moffat is also considering doing a Derrick Sherwin and shooting off to other places and shows after Capaldi's opener, I'm all for it... Time for new blood, behind and in front of the camera! Fingers crossed for a 21st century equivalent of (at least) Letts and Dicks for the new bloke! And heck - Terrance is in the phone book. Ask him for a few minutes of his time, see if he's got any notions for the road ahead. Maybe there's a script to be had!
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Post by edhipkiss on Dec 7, 2013 13:25:04 GMT
If that means Moffat is also considering doing a Derrick Sherwin and shooting off to other places and shows after Capaldi's opener, I'm all for it... Time for new blood, behind and in front of the camera! Fingers crossed for a 21st century equivalent of (at least) Letts and Dicks for the new bloke! And heck - Terrance is in the phone book. Ask him for a few minutes of his time, see if he's got any notions for the road ahead. Maybe there's a script to be had! See, this is what bothers me when people say we need "new blood behind the camera". Exactly who is there apart from Mark Gatiss who I'm not sure is right for it in terms of experience (I hope I'm wrong though)? Chris Chibnall - no thanks. By far the worst writer on the show. Paul Cornell - Hooray! We can finally have that female Doctor we've all been hankering for. I honestly dread the day Moffatt goes. When Davies left there was an obvious replacement. There isn't for Moffatt. Those wishing he'd go, well, that old saying be carefully what you wish for springs to mind. If you think the show's bad now...
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Post by Paul McDermott on Dec 9, 2013 5:21:57 GMT
The quoting seems a bit mucked up, Ed - but I follow your meaning. However, I don't think it's something I can agree with. It suggests to me that unless a given party stays with the show, it's doomed. That seems like a mix of fear and faith to me. But history tells us that Who has always survived, even thrived, with change. The problem, as I and a few others have it, is that there's not been any in the production side for entirely too many years, which needlessly sells Who short. We've been here before! Doctor Who has some fairly distinctive features for a drama show. But not being able to change production teams just isn't one of them! It wasn't true for Verity's time, nor Barry's, nor Philip's. We instead saw great variation, inspired casting, divergent personas of Doctor, quality scripts and decent support from the viewership. All for a lot less money and promotion than what we see today, too. Suppose JNT never left upon assuming the producership. Would Who have been better today if he was still with us, and still making it, or passed it to an in-house mate? A difference from how things were in the old days is that the many whiz-bang SF&F shows on telly are now the threat, whereas that only became trouble in the late 70s at the cinema. What can Who offer, to stand apart and ahead, as it should? My view is that it needs to be less jokey, less flippant, more serious, aimed above the teen soap level the competition plays at. Terrance for my money is right - narrative structure, not "going for the moments" to cover sloppy work, is essential, given both the Beeb's rep for quality drama and Who's visibility. I recall how The Bill got revamped. It used to be a bit dull at times, but it made sense and didn't take the audience's time for granted. Stories were told with some economy and credibility. That changed with the sexed up makeover. It brought in new audiences for a time as it threw over the old one and its decades-long legacy to boot. How's it doing now? The Beeb needs to lose the people making Who as it has been since '05 and lift the tone by bringing aboard new people, topflight dramatist nonfans who won't give a pass to slapdash efforts because it's only Who and their ego says it's good enough. Special dispensation for poor writing (Moffat's "I'll explain later" joke from TCOFD tipping his hand to the current era's approach) is a mistake, on any programme, but especially one with one scoop of unreality already! It should stick to its innate and traditional strengths, not ape what others are doing elsewhere. To say no one in British TV is capable of making a better Who than Moffat and co, is untrue. All I say is, let those other people, those different approaches and ideas, a chance at it now. For Capaldi. For the legacy of the series. For us, the viewers. Otherwise, if this is as good as it'll ever get, the Beeb might as well just cancel it for another decade and a half. We've seen it! Who is the one show where it simply need not get stale - provided one lets production teams leave, or nudges them out if they remain in the same rut for too long. As a franchise, Who is bigger than one man or production team. That's always been true, and remains so today. And if it hadn't been true, would there really have been a 50th anniversary? The Beeb knows all this. I really think they know there's too much to lose by doing nothing, and am hopeful we'll see a new team behind the new Doctor appointed sometime in '14.
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