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Post by shellyharman67 on Nov 13, 2014 16:19:14 GMT
I think anyone running the show as long as he has needs to pass it on. He's presided over the whole of one entire Doctor's reign and now moving into another - that's really enough. Just because he's produced an effective series doesn't mean he should carry on. I always believe that people should quit while they're ahead, rather than wait until they go stale (and he will). JNT did exactly that ! Fresh blood is a good thing.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Nov 13, 2014 16:21:57 GMT
laurence. i agree .. unfortunately, some people dont want to give up their job. in the old days, a doctor would last many producers who added their insight to a character. since jnt, producers felt that they would rather restart the series with a new acting team and a new format than give up their job. which may not be what is best for a series. Paul, if he's going the right direction than great. Unfortunately, Im not a fan of many things he did with the anniversary special (which I saw) also, im not overjoyed what he did with the master either. which could be something even rtd has not done. Absolute power I am not of fan of him writing for the show as well. Since Blink it's been awful.........
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Post by Tony Ingram on Nov 13, 2014 17:46:37 GMT
Thats probably true Tony, i'm not here to argue the point. I hope it goes for years but in my opinion its time for a regeneration of the production team. I did not enjoy this season,I feel it has lost some traditional"whoness". I am glad you enjoyed it and i hope its around for years to come.. for me.. it is no longer the show i love.. or even the show that i fell back in love with in 2005 I absolutely hated 99% of the RTD era, the Tennant years in particular. To me, Moffat's Who feels much more like the original series-just with more sophisticated writing, better effects and an overall style more suited to a 21st century audience.
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Post by mattplace on Nov 13, 2014 20:43:03 GMT
Thats probably true Tony, i'm not here to argue the point. I hope it goes for years but in my opinion its time for a regeneration of the production team. I did not enjoy this season,I feel it has lost some traditional"whoness". I am glad you enjoyed it and i hope its around for years to come.. for me.. it is no longer the show i love.. or even the show that i fell back in love with in 2005 I absolutely hated 99% of the RTD era, the Tennant years in particular. To me, Moffat's Who feels much more like the original series-just with more sophisticated writing, better effects and an overall style more suited to a 21st century audience. I agree that it is not"original Who".. the companion became the primary focus under RTD, starting with Rose.. but it was still fun to watch,i "cared" about Rose.. i cared about Jack.. (martha .. not so much)... Loved Donna...the companion was more important to the story than in original who but they were still "us"... Under Moffatt it never worked for me, I didnt care about Amy(always grumpy.. willing to cheat on her Fiance on her wedding eve), felt sorry for Rory(as he really seemed like her 2nd choice for most of the tenure)..loathed what River became...and i think ive covered Clara(and Danny)... I do agree that the production values(effects etc) are fantastic.. i disagree on the sophistication of the writing.. mind bogglingly confusing does not mean sophisticated.. RTD era was not perfect(slitheen!), but it had a sense of adventure and real joy for me, which i did not find in most of Matt Smith's era or Season 8(season h8te,,hehe). I think that Matt Smith and Capaldi were/are good in the role, but with different(better) writers then they could/will have shone. And to keep this on a Missing episode link.. i would happily wish 3/4 of season 5 to 8 be lost forever... don't even want replacements for them from current Missing eps
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 13, 2014 23:21:18 GMT
I think anyone running the show as long as he has needs to pass it on. He's presided over the whole of one entire Doctor's reign and now moving into another - that's really enough. Just because he's produced an effective series doesn't mean he should carry on. I always believe that people should quit while they're ahead, rather than wait until they go stale (and he will). I understand what you mean Laurence, honestly. And I do see the unhappy precedent nobody wants to revisit. In Moffat’s favour though is that he’s bringing rather a lot more to the table than the last multi-Doctor casting, long-running producer. And he’s doing things in a more varied way, and rather better with it for the most part, each year he’s staying on. That mitigates a bit against his risk from being there “too long”, I’d say. Given his nouse and the regard the BBC has for Doctor Who nowdays compared to the 1980s, I really don’t think it’s time to panic. Change is inevitable, and necessary. I agree! But so is timing, and not being forced into something out of an unease about the past that isn’t directly comparable today. In due course, we’ll see someone else occupy Moffat’s chair. Who that is, I don’t know. But I’m confident that person will get a ship in very good order, and will have every likelihood of being up to the job.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 13, 2014 23:28:48 GMT
Paul, if he's going the right direction than great. Unfortunately, Im not a fan of many things he did with the anniversary special (which I saw) also, im not overjoyed what he did with the master either. which could be something even rtd has not done. As to the 50th special George, yes there was a lot of things I didn’t feel worked too well either. But here again, Moffat was slowly, carefully, without startling too many viewers, unpicking the threads RTD had imbued into New Series Doctor Who. (Another show runner might just ignore the first four years, and I think not doing that is to his credit in that it keeps more of the recent additions to fandom aboard. Genius is supposed to be an infinite capacity for taking great pains to do a job properly, I understand!) He squared away the Elizabeth I thing, which although I could have happily lived without, did add a bit of light and shade. Much more importantly I thought, he revised and removed the idea that our lead character in fact was a mass murderer of his own people, in his solution to the Time War. Moffat’s way around was far more palatable to me, and brought a new sense of the unknown that harkened back to the Hartnell era’s Doctor being cut off from his own people. That’s playing out now in Capaldi’s time, and I would hope the quest for Gallifrey won’t be rushed any more than The Mistress will be overused now she’s been established so beautifully. These are nice new areas to explore, but only in small doses and only when the return doesn’t waste the potential or diminish the whole by stopping the show from moving forward. I’m confident that the balance won’t be the worse in 2015, quite the opposite. I just wonder if we’ll see some kind of multi-Doctor nod given it’s the 10th anniversary of the New Series. Or perhaps a new take on Omega? A tragic hero/villain denied returning home, after making it what it became. There’s a parallel or two it could be fun to explore, in different ways than we’ve seen before. Maybe the Doctor will be forced to choose to sacrifice a return home, to keep it safe from the man in the anti-corrosive mask! Can't call him a pudding brain though - he ain't even got a head!
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 13, 2014 23:39:34 GMT
I absolutely hated 99% of the RTD era, the Tennant years in particular. To me, Moffat's Who feels much more like the original series-just with more sophisticated writing, better effects and an overall style more suited to a 21st century audience. I agree that it is not"original Who".. the companion became the primary focus under RTD, starting with Rose.. but it was still fun to watch,i "cared" about Rose.. i cared about Jack.. (martha .. not so much)... Loved Donna...the companion was more important to the story than in original who but they were still "us"... Under Moffatt it never worked for me, I didnt care about Amy(always grumpy.. willing to cheat on her Fiance on her wedding eve), felt sorry for Rory(as he really seemed like her 2nd choice for most of the tenure)..loathed what River became...and i think ive covered Clara(and Danny)... I do agree that the production values(effects etc) are fantastic.. i disagree on the sophistication of the writing.. mind bogglingly confusing does not mean sophisticated.. RTD era was not perfect(slitheen!), but it had a sense of adventure and real joy for me, which i did not find in most of Matt Smith's era or Season 8(season h8te,,hehe). I think that Matt Smith and Capaldi were/are good in the role, but with different(better) writers then they could/will have shone. And to keep this on a Missing episode link.. i would happily wish 3/4 of season 5 to 8 be lost forever... don't even want replacements for them from current Missing eps Not minding current era Doctor Who being “lost” seems a bit strong to me, Matt. You don’t like eating the food at a restaurant, there’s others to try. Why not let the other diners have at it and find a new menu elsewhere rather than wish it was closed down? The idea of a “perfect” Doctor Who series to me seems fanciful. Hence the ongoing little tweaks, here and there. Not a new way to make good Doctor Who, indeed quite the reverse. But Moffat has brought a level of skill not seen in a long while, and part of that skill comes from knowing that the show's strength isn’t in standing still. Those fans who knew the missing eps before they were missing surely have a kind of reluctance to address disquiet over a current era in such a way. As I’ve mentioned before, you make as much bank learning from your failures as you do your successes, and its not always clear at the time which is which. The excesses and mistakes of the 1980s (heck, even earlier there were a few clangers) were unfortunate but they are also very useful - we know that some methods for making Doctor Who really don’t work too well. We’ve seen them, they’re still there for the next generation of television producers to review and learn from. And fans to watch and ponder over! That knowledge came at some cost, and is therefore worth keeping around. As to Danny, I think what we’ve seen is an increasingly better written male supporting character. Rory to me was still largely a comic stooge, even if he had a proper job. Already had a needy goof with Mickey, whom I thought was a blunder of a part. Danny by contrast struck me as lot more like Ian, and a little bit of the Harry. He could be a bit silly but also more realistic and heroic too - and was rather less the buffoon we’ve had served up to contrast with the competence of both the Doctor and the female companion. To me, that’s very much the sort of change I can be glad for. Series 8 is shot through with just such tweaks, and Doctor Who is much better for them.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 14, 2014 1:34:44 GMT
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Post by Paul Edwards on Nov 14, 2014 3:08:28 GMT
I re-watched Mummy on the Orient Express and Flatlines over the last few days with the offspring (11 yo). Both great story ideas with excellent FX, and in both cases let down by:
1. The overly bombastic incidental music 2. The whole whispered conversations on the phone. You'd swear that Clara and Plank were teenagers...
These two have probably been the best executed of the season (not seen the last episode yet) in terms of script, with the banking one up there as well. So many times, we get a great idea let down by poor plotting and scriptwriting in S8. I did not mind the Robin Hood one as a bit of a fun romp (gotta have one per season!), but the Forest one was the second romp, and not as good. The less said about Kill the Moon, the better.
Capaldi is potentially great, he simply needs better material. Less Moffat writing, more subtle incidental music, and no love interest will fix 90% of my issues with NuWho.
Cheers, Paul
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 14, 2014 7:58:27 GMT
Glad you can see some of the good in Series 8, Not-Me! Danny = Plank? Oof! Maybe you'd prefer plastic better? Check this out, may need new sides when you're done! www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FWP23X7JE4
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Post by Tony Ingram on Nov 14, 2014 8:29:41 GMT
I absolutely hated 99% of the RTD era, the Tennant years in particular. To me, Moffat's Who feels much more like the original series-just with more sophisticated writing, better effects and an overall style more suited to a 21st century audience. I agree that it is not"original Who".. the companion became the primary focus under RTD, starting with Rose.. but it was still fun to watch,i "cared" about Rose.. i cared about Jack.. (martha .. not so much)... Loved Donna...the companion was more important to the story than in original who but they were still "us"... Under Moffatt it never worked for me, I didnt care about Amy(always grumpy.. willing to cheat on her Fiance on her wedding eve), felt sorry for Rory(as he really seemed like her 2nd choice for most of the tenure)..loathed what River became...and i think ive covered Clara(and Danny)... I do agree that the production values(effects etc) are fantastic.. i disagree on the sophistication of the writing.. mind bogglingly confusing does not mean sophisticated.. RTD era was not perfect(slitheen!), but it had a sense of adventure and real joy for me, which i did not find in most of Matt Smith's era or Season 8(season h8te,,hehe). I think that Matt Smith and Capaldi were/are good in the role, but with different(better) writers then they could/will have shone. And to keep this on a Missing episode link.. i would happily wish 3/4 of season 5 to 8 be lost forever... don't even want replacements for them from current Missing eps I would be hard pressed to name any "better" writers currently working in TV than some of the current Who writers. I think we will have to agree to disagree. Personally, I would happily erase every copy of every episode broadcast between 2005 and 2009.
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Post by shellyharman67 on Nov 14, 2014 8:32:10 GMT
I agree that it is not"original Who".. the companion became the primary focus under RTD, starting with Rose.. but it was still fun to watch,i "cared" about Rose.. i cared about Jack.. (martha .. not so much)... Loved Donna...the companion was more important to the story than in original who but they were still "us"... Under Moffatt it never worked for me, I didnt care about Amy(always grumpy.. willing to cheat on her Fiance on her wedding eve), felt sorry for Rory(as he really seemed like her 2nd choice for most of the tenure)..loathed what River became...and i think ive covered Clara(and Danny)... I do agree that the production values(effects etc) are fantastic.. i disagree on the sophistication of the writing.. mind bogglingly confusing does not mean sophisticated.. RTD era was not perfect(slitheen!), but it had a sense of adventure and real joy for me, which i did not find in most of Matt Smith's era or Season 8(season h8te,,hehe). I think that Matt Smith and Capaldi were/are good in the role, but with different(better) writers then they could/will have shone. And to keep this on a Missing episode link.. i would happily wish 3/4 of season 5 to 8 be lost forever... don't even want replacements for them from current Missing eps I would be hard pressed to name any "better" writers currently working in TV than some of the current Who writers. I think we will have to agree to disagree. Personally, I would happily erase every copy of every episode broadcast between 2005 and 2009. Matt, i totally agree with you. Moff has the final say of the scripts as he is in total control of everything. This is the worst season in the new run by far. And i was not keen on smith at all....
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Post by mattplace on Nov 14, 2014 8:48:06 GMT
I will agree that some of the writers are great writers...Neil Gaiman is one of my favorite authors, I quite enjoyed the Doctors wife... but Nightmare in Silver... it was quite dire.
Lets agree that I wont change your mind and you wont change mine... This is what fandom should be, we have not fallen into name calling and attacks , its been a healthy debate!( that I am on the right side of...hehehe)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 8:52:47 GMT
In Moffat’s favour though is that he’s bringing rather a lot more to the table than the last multi-Doctor casting, long-running producer. And he’s doing things in a more varied way, and rather better with it for the most part, each year he’s staying on. That mitigates a bit against his risk from being there “too long”, I’d say. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one then, Paul. He's had more than his time and should now move on.
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Post by Paul McDermott on Nov 14, 2014 8:53:51 GMT
I will agree that some of the writers are great writers...Neil Gaiman is one of my favorite authors, I quite enjoyed the Doctors wife... but Nightmare in Silver... it was quite dire. Lets agree that I wont change your mind and you wont change mine... This is what fandom should be, we have not fallen into name calling and attacks , its been a healthy debate!( that I am on the right side of...hehehe) Never intended otherwise, Matt! Really have enjoyed thrashing out where we see differences in Series 8. Hope the trade has been fun for you! Hey, what the... "Right side of?!" Shaves, puts on old lady frock, new body: Say something nice!
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