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Post by Alan Turrell on Jul 24, 2013 20:39:42 GMT
Manfred Man Chapter III would have been very interesting i haven't seen any footage of them .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 20:52:42 GMT
Manfred Man Chapter III would have been very interesting i haven't seen any footage of them . Courtesy of French TV... www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5ueacuBVjEwww.youtube.com/watch?v=oTi7Bykg7L0A couple of songs from their first album... unfortunately with ridiculous overdubbed crowd cheering! Am also sure I've seen a clip of them on Beat Club in 1970 as well. Either way, not much footage of them in action.
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Post by Alan Turrell on Jul 24, 2013 21:48:22 GMT
Thanks Phillip good to see something of them visually i think they made 2 albums Chapter Three and Chapter Three vol 2 before they disbanded.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2013 22:07:22 GMT
Thanks Phillip good to see something of them visually i think they made 2 albums Chapter Three and Chapter Three vol 2 before they disbanded. Yes... rather interesting albums too. Always felt it was a pity Manfred and Mike Hugg fell out. They did do a third album which remains officially unreleased though copies are floating about in collectors circles. Haven't heard it myself. And actually, given this is a forum about missing materials and stuff that did get destroyed, Manfred himself lost ALL his multitrack tapes and masters sometime in the 1980's when his own vault was subject to an arson attack. The Chapter Three album masters were lost in that blaze but thankfully, a copy of the third had been sent to his American record company back in 1971 or 1972 hence a mixed down version does survive. Lost in that vault fire were all the Chapter Three and Earth Band stuff. That's why no outtakes or remixes have ever emerged of the Earth Band from 1972 to the mid to late 80's.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 11:01:59 GMT
Thanks for that (sad) information, Phillip. I'd never heard about those masters being destroyed. I'm a big fan of the underrated Chapter Three and I always wondered why those albums were never released in remixed / remastered form! Were the whys and wherefores of the arson attack established? Just as tragic though is the total loss of this Grampian series as it would have given us the chance to see the band on UK TV (as well as all those other acts).
Those two french clips are a valuable document of Chapter Three though. I believe there is also another existing performance of them (in b/w) from Australian TV (?), which has been released as an extra on some Earth Band set or other (although I've never seen it myself). Can anyone confirm? I'm pretty sure they didn't do Beat Club, although I'd be happy to be proved wrong. I wonder if they made any other TV appearances anywhere in the world other than the few we know about? I believe they did record at least one radio session at the time as well.
I didn't know Mann and Hugg fell out though. I know they're friends again these days.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 12:39:27 GMT
Thanks for that (sad) information, Phillip. I'd never heard about those masters being destroyed. I'm a big fan of the underrated Chapter Three and I always wondered why those albums were never released in remixed / remastered form! Were the whys and wherefores of the arson attack established? Just as tragic though is the total loss of this Grampian series as it would have given us the chance to see the band on UK TV (as well as all those other acts). Those two french clips are a valuable document of Chapter Three though. I believe there is also another existing performance of them (in b/w) from Australian TV (?), which has been released as an extra on some Earth Band set or other (although I've never seen it myself). Can anyone confirm? I'm pretty sure they didn't do Beat Club, although I'd be happy to be proved wrong. I wonder if they made any other TV appearances anywhere in the world other than the few we know about? I believe they did record at least one radio session at the time as well. I didn't know Mann and Hugg fell out though. I know they're friends again these days. Yes... Mann and Hugg had the age old "creative differences" with each one wanting to go in different directions. Also worth remembering by then they'd been working together ten years or so, so it was probably time for a change... they both didn't do too badly either. It would be nice to see the pair reunite one day for a gig or project but given Manfred's stance whenever reunions are mentioned, it's not likely. No idea what was behind the arson attack on Manfred's vault - certainly an act of criminal vandalism. I read about it two or three years back on a different forum when Chapter Three came under discussion and according to the insider who told the sorry story, that vault also contained many other tapes by other artistes as well. Unsurprisingly, Manfred was most upset by it I might have been wrong about Chapter Three on "Beat Club" but definitely saw some clip from the early 70's featuring Mike Hugg so possibly a project he did after Chapter Three ended. Hugg's an under-rated barely sung talent - who else in the 60's had a proficient vibes player tossing in interesting solos like he did? That was one of the characteristics of the Jones era Manfreds, that unique fusion of Jazz, Pop and R+B. "I'm Your Kingpin" and "Stay Around" are my two faves that sum up the Jones era. Then in the D'Abo era he emerged as a great songwriter with a fine voice prone to writing catchy tunes, notably "Feelin' So Good" on the B'side of "Ha Ha Said The Clown" - great song!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 12:52:12 GMT
I quite agree about Hugg. I've always liked his work. I'm wondering if the early '70s appearance might be OGWT? I can't remember exactly without a guide to hand but I think he might have made an appearance in an early existing edition or session tape (?).
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Post by williammcgregor on Jul 29, 2013 12:39:51 GMT
Thanks for that (sad) information, Phillip. I'd never heard about those masters being destroyed. I'm a big fan of the underrated Chapter Three and I always wondered why those albums were never released in remixed / remastered form! Were the whys and wherefores of the arson attack established? Just as tragic though is the total loss of this Grampian series as it would have given us the chance to see the band on UK TV (as well as all those other acts). Those two french clips are a valuable document of Chapter Three though. I believe there is also another existing performance of them (in b/w) from Australian TV (?), which has been released as an extra on some Earth Band set or other (although I've never seen it myself). Can anyone confirm? I'm pretty sure they didn't do Beat Club, although I'd be happy to be proved wrong. I wonder if they made any other TV appearances anywhere in the world other than the few we know about? I believe they did record at least one radio session at the time as well. I didn't know Mann and Hugg fell out though. I know they're friends again these days. Here's some info from the NME dated 19th July 1969 about Manfred Mann Chapter III Manfred Mann Chapter III the new group which has emerged following the disbandment of the old Manfreds outfit- is to play it's first string of major concert dates in september. These are being set up by impresario Harold davison, with whom the group signed an agency contract. Its debut LP will be released to coincide with the tour. Manager David Joseph announced that one of the groups September concerts will be filmed by the Austrian TV company Jardin. This will be edited into a 30 minute colour special, which will then be used for a world-wide promotion.Joseph is also compiling another half hour show from the promotional clips which the old Manfred Mann group has filmed over the years. Additional material will be shot involving Chapter III to give a comprehensive survey of Manfred's musical progress since his early days of chart success. When completed, this film will be submitted to British TV companies for their consideration.Does any member know if this project came to fruition? * just a thought, Moderators maybe you can start a new stand alone Manfred Mann Chapter III thread? as it's beginning to deviate away from "Pop Scotch" '70 cheers William
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 17:27:48 GMT
Joseph is also compiling another half hour show from the promotional clips which the old Manfred Mann group has filmed over the years. Additional material will be shot involving Chapter III to give a comprehensive survey of Manfred's musicall progress since his early days of chart success. When completed, this film will be submitted to British TV companies for their consideration.Does any member know if this project came to fruition? Interesting and intriguing. Not heard of this before and my guess is it was never completed and no real surprise either since Mann and Hugg seemed desperate to put the pop Manfreds swiftly behind them so I can't imagine them being too comfortable with using older Manfreds footage at this time when they wanted to move on forward. There certainly are a few promo clips existing of the D'Abo era - one wonders what they could had used of the Paul Jones era since all we have of them visually are a handful of TV appearances, no promos. Paul McGuinness has said a few times over the decades that the pop Manfreds broke up because they had gotten "bored" of being a pop single machine, citing "Ragamuffin Man" as a nadir, that they spent loads of time on it yet none of them liked the song. Mike D'Abo offers a very different explanation recalling Mann and Hugg asking him as they taped some TV show if D'Abo would help form a majority to break the band up, so from that, one assumes it was Mann and Hugg's decision to bring it to an end. Klaus Voorman also agreed yet D'Abo recalls that McGuinness was "devastated" by the split. This info gleaned from D'Abo's sleeve notes for the 1997 double CD "Ascent Of Mann" So, I think it's extremely unlikely the half hour show featuring old promos would had gone very far. Manfred Mann Chapter Three were so radically different from what had gone on before, Mann and Hugg's big stab at becoming "serious" Does make one wonder if the concert TV special was actually filmed... and furthermore whether there's a copy lurking in the vaults somewhere!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 18:00:30 GMT
A Chapter Three 30 minute colour special to be filmed for Austrian TV sounds almost too good to be true, doesn't it! Interesting though that the TV company, Jardin, was named, so it must have reached a certain stage of preparation. I wonder if it's sitting in a vault somewhere? I wonder if Hugg or Mann will recall if it was recorded?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2013 19:40:17 GMT
A Chapter Three 30 minute colour special to be filmed for Austrian TV sounds almost too good to be true, doesn't it! Interesting though that the TV company, Jardin, was named, so it must have reached a certain stage of preparation. I wonder if it's sitting in a vault somewhere? I wonder if Hugg or Mann will recall if it was recorded? It does sound a little too good to be true, but then again, European TV was I think more open minded and treated music (and archiving) more seriously, especially by that time - look at how "Beat Club" almost overnight ditched the pop chart direction and focused on the heavier album acts at more or less at the precise right time. Then of course Manfred Mann Chapter Three were one of the earliest acts on the Vertigo label which again was devoted to less commercial names with a wide range of musical styles. It was a daring daunting move for Mann and Hugg to take since they could easily had carried on in the earlier style scoring hits into the 70's but instead they took a big gamble and moved on creating much interesting music along the way and after when Mann and Hugg parted company. Maybe someone ought to start looking into Jardin... have never heard of them myself!
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Post by John Green on Jul 29, 2013 20:26:47 GMT
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Post by williammcgregor on Jul 29, 2013 22:02:51 GMT
I know we're still discussing the possible appearance on Austrian TV and I hope we can find some more info on that, but in trying to find out more info I came across another TV appearance (see below)
The NME stated Manfred Mann Chapter III would make their UK TV debut on a BBC 2 show called "Music Now" on Saturday the 5th October 1969 they would feature a track from their forthcoming album, which was expected to be released at the end of October. Manfred would also be interviewed on the show.
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Post by williammcgregor on Jul 30, 2013 8:17:15 GMT
No wonder there's not a lot of TV footage about...Chapter III go down the Led Zeppelin road... (see below)
NME 28th February 1970
Manfred Mann Chapter III, currently working on a new album for June release by Vertigo is being lined up for a debut visit to Australia after it's six-week spring tour of America. Manfred told the NME this week that the group is deliberately avoiding television appearances. He said: "We don't want to get involved in mass media like TV and singles. We want to prove that we're good enough to get through, simply by going out and meeting people."
Fair play though, it's takes guts to turn your back on the media and risk potential sales etc.
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SydV
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Post by SydV on Jul 30, 2013 8:54:39 GMT
The NME stated Manfred Mann Chapter III would make their UK TV debut on a BBC 2 show called "Music Now" on Saturday the 5th October 1969 they would feature a track from their forthcoming album, which was expected to be released at the end of October. Manfred would also be interviewed on the show. This would be a Sunday (rather than Saturday) at 8:15-9:15pm, a BBC2 slot usually reserved for classical music by the looks of things, so they were obviously taking them very seriously. It is a really good album and one I'd imagine a lot of people continue to overlook due to Manfred Mann's run of 68/69 bubblegum singles (My Name is Jack / Fox on the Run / Ragamuffin Man), it was quite a shock to say the least the first time I listened to it.
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