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Post by Daniel Hornby on Nov 29, 2012 17:33:39 GMT
In an ideal world, I would be offering people a million pounds after tax to return an episode and then return it to the BBC or at least let them take a high resolution copy for the archives etc.. This offer would be irregardless of the episode, be it one from The Space Pirates or Power of the Daleks/insert favourite story here. That would ensure that there was no inflation due to the particular story, but as I said would be in an ideal world.
Even this though I don't feel would persuade a collector to part with it. Collectors want rare things and whilst gaining £1 000 000 would be nice for a lot of people, I'm sure for a lot of collectors, it would not be a big enough incentive. A better incentive would be something else just as rare, like an orange elephant.
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Post by John Andersen on Nov 29, 2012 17:41:05 GMT
To be fair though, who, outside of fandom and the Blue Peter audience would be aware of his offer..? But again, the reason that nobody has come forward may be because there isn't anything to find..! That is part of the problem, isn't it? It will cost too much to make everybody aware. Even if everybody is aware, they might not have anything. Most of the returns from collectors have been from the UK, right? How many fans are tuning into the program each week in the UK? The best chance to make people aware is if they talked to all their friends and neighbors about lost episodes and that they would like to buy prints from old film collections. This would be the best way to search for leads.
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Post by cjones on Nov 29, 2012 18:12:16 GMT
FWIW, this idea was most recently put forward by me about two months ago: missingepisodes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=who&action=display&thread=7868A lengthy discussion ensued. Problems of administering a 'lost episodes fund' were examined, but I think workarounds were arrived at for pretty much all of them, as well as the increase in hoaxers that would ensue (the way of dealing with them, I think, would be to ignore everyone who came forward without cast-iron, 100% PROOF that they had something lost). Nevertheless, the consensus that emerged was that the idea's single advantage (i.e. that it gives people an incentive to look) was outweighed by the disadvantages, which are as follows: 1) what to do if two episodes turn up at once. I cannot think of a solution to this. 2) splitting DW fandom by establishing a group opposed by large sections of the community (and there was, as this thread itself proves, a LOT of opposition to the idea - probably 1/3 in favour-2/3 against). Right now, everyone's singing from the same hymnsheet. Let's keep it that way. 3) some gullible people will always be taken in by hoaxes (even if the 'episodes fund' people themselves aren't), thus lowering morale in the community. So I'm not sure it's worth having the debate again.
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Post by Dale Rumbold on Nov 29, 2012 19:21:09 GMT
Ignoring the issue of offering a 'reward' (it probably would be counter-productive, as most on here say), I DO think that any publicity that can be had regarding the missing episodes of Dr Who AND OTHER SHOWS should not be ruled out : it is very easy when you're on this forum (and similar) several times a day, like me, to think that EVERYONE knows all this stuff is missing, but every conversation I ever have with 'ordinary' folk (i.e. who don't visit this site) shows that the vast majority of the British public are completely unaware of the situation - I would put the figure at about 99%. While it is true that most 'collectors' of films etc. probably fall within the 'inner circle' of 1%, I'm convinced that there are many who do not, not to mention relatives of deceased collectors etc. As to HOW you get the word to those 99% ... 'product placement' or messages within some of the crappy reality shows and/or soaps perhaps? Newspaper 'ads', if large enough, might be worth a go too.
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Post by Brad Phipps on Nov 29, 2012 20:05:54 GMT
Offer a reward in Nigeria.
Probably wouldn't work, it seems everyone has a relative over there who was a millionaire at some stage.
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Post by D. Frame on Nov 29, 2012 21:00:38 GMT
To be fair though, who, outside of fandom and the Blue Peter audience would be aware of his offer..? But again, the reason that nobody has come forward may be because there isn't anything to find..! O, hush now, talk like that means i'll have to lie down in a darkened room hugging my snoopy toy listening to the wheel in space. On subject, I don't think it's a good idea but if i knew a Russian billionaire well enough to spend his cash a couple of hundred grand an episode should flush out anything once and for all. Dream land ?
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Post by Daniel Hornby on Nov 29, 2012 22:45:31 GMT
Despite some words in my previous post, I actually feel that the only way to get serious with regards to missing material is offering a substantial amount of money for every episode. The BBC is never going to offer money for missing episodes for at least a few reasons, I'm sure all of them posted somewhere on this forum! 1. The copyright for those episodes would be seen as worthless by some if the BBC started paying for their old episodes to be returned. This might make their argument of intellectual property rights seem rather shallow. 2. For budgetary reasons, the BBC cannot justify reclaiming episodes it threw out nearly 40 years ago! As well as this, some people would feel it was a complete waste whatever the budget, as there would be more 'worthy' things to spend resources on.
While these two points have merit, I would like to point out that: The BBC budget will be renegotiated in the near future after the licence fee freeze - 2016. The budget is bound to go up, especially if one believes the freeze will result in a real terms drop of 16% from 2010 to 2016. The BBC has made a lot of cutbacks to cope with the new budget, and I would thus argue that if the BBC come the new licence fee agreement would keep hold of £1 million a year to account for missing episode finds and gives say £10k per find, that would give the opportunity for 100 finds of something over that year. Now whilst that is so ridiculously unlikely, if the finder's fee was lifted to £100k per episode/find, then that would give a maximum of 10 finds per year. £1 million in relation to the BBC budget is very small indeed if one works on the premise that the licence fee raised £3.66 billion in 2010-11. £1m is basically small change compared to the £3.6bn and could in my view be justifiably used to cover payments for the return of the few missing episodes of which ever programme are out there. It will never happen, but in my opinion would be a good idea. As a fan it may be a very biased opinion, but objectively there are good reasons for spending licence fee money in this way. Doctor Who/insert favourite programme etc., may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the programmes are part of our cultural heritage. Billions of pounds are spent in the upkeep of precious monuments, old houses etc and the preservation of our cultural heritage, so why not in this way? I understand that there may not be anything more out there to be found, but if in say 50 years time nothing more is found, the BBC have then got £50m which they can put back into programming etc.
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Post by Stephen Neve on Nov 29, 2012 22:45:36 GMT
Targeting the right group of people would be of more help. Time should be spent contacting local film clubs etc.
There is a film society in my area which I am thinking of joining. I can make new friends and contacts with the very people who just might know somebody with somebody with old BBC films.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Nov 29, 2012 22:51:54 GMT
I don't even have a film society I know of in my area. Or at least I've not looked well enough. And Steve S probably has a good handle on the community in southern New England.
I've thought about putting an ad in my local paper to the effect of "Looking for 60's 70s British BBC 16mm reels". I mean, yeah ... might be useless ... but what the hell? It's not that much money, and the worse that could happen is no one calls me.
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Post by Brad Phipps on Nov 29, 2012 23:55:25 GMT
I don't even have a film society I know of in my area. Or at least I've not looked well enough. And Steve S probably has a good handle on the community in southern New England. I've thought about putting an ad in my local paper to the effect of "Looking for 60's 70s British BBC 16mm reels". I mean, yeah ... might be useless ... but what the hell? It's not that much money, and the worse that could happen is no one calls me. No the worst that happens is a hoaxer calls you.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Nov 30, 2012 2:33:23 GMT
No the worst that happens is a hoaxer calls you. ... I'm going to be up to my eyeballs in socks, aren't I?
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Post by Alistair Gordon on Nov 30, 2012 6:43:59 GMT
People seem to have veered away from the original point of my posting.How do we get an article in a National newspaper about missing episodes? If Ian Levine is offering £2,000 per episode (news to me) then that is something that could form part of the article (assuming that he passes on the episode and doesn't keep it for himself,wasn't there a paragraph in wiped saying that he used to keep a few episodes for "negotiation " purposes?).There is also the question re lobbying for a treasure hunt style 50th anniv programme.Again HOW DO WE LOBBY FOR SUCH A THING?
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Post by Richard Bignell on Nov 30, 2012 8:04:28 GMT
Again HOW DO WE LOBBY FOR SUCH A THING? Quite simply, the BBC won't be interested as it wouldn't be seen as worth the cost of producing it. And just to clarify, Ian Levine's offer was made on Blue Peter and it was that any viewer who was actively able to help get a missing episode returned could win themselves a full-sized Dalek. It later became clear that Ian didn't have the money to pay of it himself - rather he was going to call on a few of his fan friends to chip in and front the cost. It was online, after the appeal was made, that Levine modified the offer to give either the Dalek or the £2000 it would cost to build as a reward.
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Post by Daniel Hornby on Nov 30, 2012 10:00:50 GMT
Sorry Alistair, my point might veer off your intended point again!
John W King (shares the name with a former housemate of mine!) suggested an alternative 50th anniversary push with no mention of money. If good ideas can be raised without the possibility of money then that is in a lot of ways preferable. However, many people are greedy. All the finds have not required an exchange of money before the BBC received a copy. However, The Crusade episode was sold on eBay afterwards. This means that people are aware of the significant price that a missing episode would fetch. There is no reason to think then that episodes might not be exchanged privately for large sums of money. I feel to increase the chances of getting whatever small number there is left, that offering an extensive reward for doing so might be the best way. It would therefore be up to people to donate or lobby those who would be willing to invest extensive amounts of money for saving our cultural heritage. I feel calling missing episodes our lost cultural heritage is fair enough, I'm sure many would agree.
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Post by G D Peck on Nov 30, 2012 10:10:59 GMT
I have said before but maybe the 50th Anniversary might be a good time for the BBC to relaunch it's Treasure Hunt campaign, with a strong Doctor Who flavour off the back of the anniversary.
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