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Post by GarySayers on Mar 12, 2012 10:32:34 GMT
Steven Sigel - 'The implication of the original post was that there was some underground black market in missing Dr. Who episodes.' There was no such implication in the original post.
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Post by Richard Tipple on Mar 12, 2012 11:56:35 GMT
Thanks very much for the directions! You've saved me a lot of time!
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Post by Steven Sigel on Mar 12, 2012 13:01:22 GMT
@ John Wall - Agreed. @ Gary Sayers - wasn't referring to your posts, someone else (I've now lost track of who) suggested that collectors were swapping episodes amongst themselves.
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Post by felixdembinski on Mar 12, 2012 16:30:21 GMT
There were film inserts from an episode of out of the unknown on ebay last year, but they were from an episode that already existed, I bidded on it, but didn't win. I did win some 16mm material from a missing episode of Late Night Horror before though.
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Post by Ash Stewart on Mar 12, 2012 20:41:46 GMT
First of all they would have to persuade people it wasn't a hoax, which would at least require a substantial clip posted on youtube (which would then infringe the BBC's rights - correct me if I'm wrong). Then they would be faced with the problem of trust both in the exchange of goods for money and in the promise of uniqueness. Or they could just scan a few sections of the film and post these images on the auction... that's all that would really be needed. No need for a clip at all. And the trust issue I also don't see as a problem; all you'd need to do is to make the statement in the auction that you were selling your only copy of the print, and it would be legally binding. Heck... it's not outside of the realms of possibility that rather than sell it on eBay, you might sell it through an auction house like Sothebys... There'd be no issue of trust then, as they would ensure that the description of the item was accurate.
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Post by John F Brayshaw on Mar 12, 2012 23:32:42 GMT
Look, enough of the nonsense if this gets the word out there so be it. The auction is well over $1200.00 so far with days to go. Myabe this 'll get some of those collectors to look through their collections and something substantial will show up.
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Post by Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy on Mar 13, 2012 0:23:35 GMT
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Post by LanceM on Mar 13, 2012 0:36:02 GMT
There is a BFI listing for this film online. However, it does not state as to what year, actor, company, or any other information really other than the title of the film. And its presence in the BFI listing database. Does sound interesting, and would be a fascinating item to be certain here.
Cheers, Lance.
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 13, 2012 10:49:23 GMT
Or they could just scan a few sections of the film and post these images on the auction... that's all that would really be needed. No need for a clip at all. Possible, I grant you, though to make the scans hoax-proof would take a bit of effort. Someone might, after all, have some off-air photos that haven't been seen before, and Photoshop. And the trust issue I also don't see as a problem; all you'd need to do is to make the statement in the auction that you were selling your only copy of the print, and it would be legally binding. Again, I'm not sure whether you couldn't simply get round this by saying it was the person you got it from that had the copy. Legal minefield, in my opinion. Heck... it's not outside of the realms of possibility that rather than sell it on eBay, you might sell it through an auction house like Sothebys... There'd be no issue of trust then, as they would ensure that the description of the item was accurate. It wouldn't be a hoax then though it still might not be unique. I've no idea what Sothebys charges in commission - people presumably choose to use eBay for a reason. Maybe one day someone will try this and we'll see what happens. I can't imagine it going down well with fandom unless the episode was on its way back to the BBC, and fandom, whether we like it or agree with it or not, is a force to be reckoned with. I shudder to think what would happen if a missing episode was to emerge briefly in an auction site on its way from private hands to private hands never to be seen again. It would be like the 4th crusade. Richard
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Post by Ash Stewart on Mar 13, 2012 12:33:43 GMT
I do think that sooner or later a missing episode will turn up on eBay (or an auction house), and it will be very interesting to see what happens.
I do see your point in respect of the uniqueness of the print, though; also the publicity generated might be enough to get someone else come out of the woodwork and say "I've got a copy of that as well...", which is actually what occurred with a Charlie Chaplin short that was sold by (IIRC) Sothebys quite recently. And Sothebys, I am sure, will charge more for selling the thing than eBay would; but a Sothebys auction would have a higher degree of prestige, and could command higher bids as they'd know it was genuine.
And, no, it probably would not go down well with fandom at all; but given that this existing print is now sitting at £1,120 with three days to go, they might think the price they'll get for it would be worth the hassle.
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Post by John Wall on Mar 13, 2012 12:52:51 GMT
One wonders if Auntie has thought about some "limited edition" prints of existing episodes ? Could be a nice little earner......
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Post by Richard Tipple on Mar 13, 2012 12:57:15 GMT
One wonders if Auntie has thought about some "limited edition" prints of existing episodes ? Could be a nice little earner...... It'd cost a bomb to shoot 16mm with sound for 25 minutes... If they did it and could sell them for £150 or less per episode I'd be very interested. I'm always on the look out for Who prints, even dupes, I just prefer having them in my collection than DVD's!
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Richard Develyn
Member
Living in hope that more missing episodes will come back to us.
Posts: 574
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Post by Richard Develyn on Mar 13, 2012 13:03:08 GMT
I would conjecture that if either of the recently recovered film prints went up for auction now they would make 2x to 3x the amount that this one will make.
I would also conjecture that if they had gone up for auction prior to being returned to the BBC they might have made a bit more than that but not enough, IMVHO, to compensate for the very unwelcome attention that they would have generated.
All of this, of course, is "altruism-aside", and I'm sure that nobody on this forum would dream of holding fandom to ransom in this manner. In a funny sort of way, though, I think it's important to have an open and honest discussion about this because, although I would love nothing better than to see more episodes returned, I wouldn't want to rob anyone.
Richard
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Post by John Wall on Mar 13, 2012 13:05:28 GMT
One wonders if Auntie has thought about some "limited edition" prints of existing episodes ? Could be a nice little earner...... It'd cost a bomb to shoot 16mm with sound for 25 minutes... If they did it and could sell them for £150 or less per episode I'd be very interested. I'm always on the look out for Who prints, even dupes, I just prefer having them in my collection than DVD's! I'm talking about dupes. How much does it cost to duplicate a 25 minute 16mm b&w film ?
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Post by Ash Stewart on Mar 13, 2012 13:13:10 GMT
I would conjecture that if either of the recently recovered film prints went up for auction now they would make 2x to 3x the amount that this one will make. Yeah... I think that sounds about right to me; especially bearing in mind the relatively small number of people that have seen TUM2, and the smaller number of people that have seen all o fthe G4 episode (only an extract was screened at MBW). There'd certainly be enough people who haven't yet seen it that would pay over the odds to get see it sooner rather than later to drive the price up. I guess if a person who has allowed the BBC to copy such a print is to make as much money from it as possible, the time to do so is the window in between when the episode is returned, and when it's either released on DVD or when illict copies have snuck out (which doesn't seem to have happened with these latest two returns). The closer to the return date, the better... I have stated in the past that I think sooner or later a missing episode will turn up on eBay; and certainly my estimate as to what I think it will go for may differ from others. It'll be interesting to see how high it goes, especially if it's one of the most sought episodes, and the attention the seller receives...
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