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Post by Richard Marple on Jan 2, 2012 15:27:26 GMT
While a lot of US TV has been made on film & much syndicated, there are some material which has been wiped or lost over the years. I'm not sure what "holy grails" there are, but I do know that a lot of the early years of The Tonight Show doesn't exist. Also some shows were made in colour but most of the only remaining copies are B&W, ie musc show Hullabaloo. Mark Evanier mentions a few on his site: www.newsfromme.com/archives/2011_11_04.html
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Post by John Green on Jan 2, 2012 15:52:30 GMT
I remember in the mid 60s someone at Marvel joked in a letters page that they couldn't check an old story 'because we don't have a copy of it'.Fans were aghast.Didn't Marvel take care of their treasures,they wanted to know? Turned out later that much of the original artwork was missing from an insecure warehouse.When the company wanted to do reprints,they sometimes had to copy b&w British reprints shot from the original art,and re-colour that. Too many similarities to British television.
p.s.Paul Gambercini (I've mis-spelt that) often had letter printed in U.S. comics,and would often receive scripts and artwork as prizes.Now,if only the BBC had had a similar system.
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Post by John Green on Jan 2, 2012 15:58:20 GMT
I should perhaps have mentioned,in case he's not well known in the UK, that as well as writing LOTS of TV (and some wonderful pieces on writing for said medium),Mark Evanier has been involved in comics,as a writer and fan,for decades.
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Post by PAUL COTTON on Jan 2, 2012 17:48:45 GMT
Some of the most sought after missing American TV is mentioned in the 'Missing Believed Wiped' book by Dick Fiddy, which was published in 2003.
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Post by Richard Marple on Jan 2, 2012 18:39:05 GMT
I've seen clips of a daytime horror soap(!), can't remember the name but it has some episodes missing.
Some things do turn up, the rejected Star Trek pilot The Cage first turned up in B&W & later a full colour print was found.
Also the pilot for I Love Lucy was found under the bed of a supporting actor when his widow was having a clearout.
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Post by John Green on Jan 2, 2012 18:54:41 GMT
Didn't the 'lost' Bilko/Phil Silvers pilot turn up,too? Funny you should mention Lucy,since on another thread mention's made of a load of them being liberated from a skip. What was the policy on material supplied from the U.S. to the U.K.? I'm presuming that it had to be returned or proof offered of destruction? What missing shows were sent over here?
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RWels
Member
Posts: 2,863
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Post by RWels on Jan 2, 2012 23:13:54 GMT
What missing shows were sent over here? A colour version of the Star Trek pilot was recovered from the UK, I think.
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Post by Robert Lia on Jan 3, 2012 4:20:21 GMT
I would think the majority of missing American TV shows would be soap operas from the 1950's threw the late 1970's. Back then they were shown only once and that was it. Dark Shadows was an exception as Dan Curtis Productions saved the episodes and as ABC-TV was a newly formed network they were still offering kinoscopes as late as the fall of 1970. The only one episode of Dark Shades that is missing was made I think in March 1971 4 or 5 months after they stopped offering kinoscopes to there affiliates.
Other soap opera production company's like Proctor & Gamble did not start saving there tapes until 1978 or 1979. ABC-TV also started keeping all there owned soap operas in 1979 as well.
Ryan's Hope also exists from its beginning in 1975 and was repeated on soap net a while back. I am sure there are other talk shows and perhaps game shows that are missing. Game Show Network did repeat a bunch of 1970's game shows as well.
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Post by George D on Jan 3, 2012 5:02:38 GMT
There are two categories in american tv. Things that are missing and things that are believed lost but the network has.
For example, theres a story that Milton Berle asked a network for copies of his programs. When they said they didnt have them, he sued them. Then they found them very quickly afterwards.
One of the biggest missing episode stories is the blatant destruction of the dumont library which included classics such as the SF serial Capt. Video apx. 6 are floating around but around 30-50 are believed to exist
Most daytime tv is missing such as soaps and game shows. One of previous holy grails of missing game shows was Hollywood Squares. They found a giant run in a warehouse about 10 years ago. After a bunch was shown on the Game Show Network, Im told that the originals were destroyed of most.
My Living Doll, Julie Newmars first show, most may be missing or they may be in a network vault. Its rumored that Bob Cummings wanted the show gone.
Many thought most Howdy Doodys do not exist. However a 4 DVD set came out which I believe were copied off Network prints.
Some 50s syndicated material such as Sheena may also not exist. Fortunately most prime time network stuff does exist from the 1960s onward. Destruction like the BBC did, did not happen in America
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Post by John Green on Jan 3, 2012 16:34:45 GMT
I read that people were fairly cynical when Jackie Gleeson discovered 'lost' Honeymooners episodes.Or have I confused it with Milton Berle. In the UK,I believe,actors didn't often have a stake in their shows but were doing work for hire,so wouldn't retain copies?
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Post by Richard Marple on Jan 3, 2012 20:14:59 GMT
I've seen clips of a daytime horror soap(!), can't remember the name but it has some episodes missing. Some things do turn up, the rejected Star Trek pilot The Cage first turned up in B&W & later a full colour print was found. Also the pilot for I Love Lucy was found under the bed of a supporting actor when his widow was having a clearout. If you're talking about Dark Shadows, one episode is missing from near the end of the series. A few episodes originally transmitted in color only survive in B&W. I have a early issue video tape of "The Cage" Star Trek pilot. Gene Roddenberry said that the color parts were reused in "The Menagerie" and the rest is all that is left of the pilot. This indicates that it was made in B&W and was colorized later. Other incomplete American programs include most of the output of the Dumont network, including some early Honeymooners and most Captain Video episodes. Several game show and soap opera episodes also are missing. I've also got the mixed media version of The Cage, I think the B&W print was a viewing copy kept hidden by Gene Roddenberry. Thanks for filling me in about Dark Shadows, I remember seeing some clips a few years ago. Quite quirky, thanks to some Acorn Antiques style slip-ups. I did wonder if some material had turned up from well-healed collectors, or colleges / universities who had access to early video recording equipment. I did wonder of some of Jon Petwee's Dr Who stories might turn up on colour home recordings in an American collection one day.
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Post by George D on Jan 4, 2012 3:22:06 GMT
Jackie Gleason did keep copies of his CBS shows. Im not sure why or how he got the copies but Im glad he did. He just never released them until he got the right offer. To everyone else they were lost. To Jackie, they were sitting very happily in his vault. I cant comment on what happened with Jackie. Maybe hehad the prints but not rights to release them.
Some actors go the extra mile. For example the steptoes were kept by the stars (although home video copies). I still believe that Terry Nation, since he part owned the daleks, had enough pull where he could have negotiated copies of the prints for himself. Im curious if he was ever contacted before the originals were destroyed for approval.
The cage pilot b/w print was never lost. It was well known in the 70s that Roddenberry would trot it around to conventions. However the full color version was not known to exist.
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Post by Marshall Fish on Jan 4, 2012 7:40:42 GMT
Unfortunately, so many American shows were wiped. That goes especially for a lot of the local station programming. The 2 inch and 1 inch tape were so expensive then, and as we know from the news story on John Henshall and the Jean Genie clip,very large in size. In the U.S. the local kids shows from the 60's and early to mid 70's , and national ones like (Paul) Winchell-Mahoney Time, Wonderama, Soupy Sales, and more weren't kept. The old U.S. pro wrestling territory shows were wiped and reused. I assume that was the case with the 1960's Kent Walton hosted UK wrestling broadcasts. One U.S. chat show I'd really like to see again is a Mike Douglas Show from 1973, which featured Spanky McFarland and Darla Hood of the Little Rascals (Our Gang) comedies as guests. I've never seen any footage of the broadcast since it originally aired. Marshall Five classic U.S. TV shows still unavailable on home video (not spam): marshfish.hubpages.com/hub/Five-classic-US-TV-shows-still-unavailable-on-home-videoand Five collectible Paul McCartney related compact discs (also not spam): marshfish.hubpages.com/hub/Five-collectible-Paul-McCartney-related-compact-disc-releases
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Post by Ray Langstone (was saintsray) on Jan 4, 2012 8:39:26 GMT
Unfortunately, so many American shows were wiped. That goes especially for a lot of the local station programming. The 2 inch and 1 inch tape were so expensive then, and as we know from the news story on John Henshall and the Jean Genie clip,very large in size. In the U.S. the local kids shows from the 60's and early to mid 70's , and national ones like (Paul) Winchell-Mahoney Time, Wonderama, Soupy Sales, and more weren't kept. The old U.S. pro wrestling territory shows were wiped and reused. I assume that was the case with the 1960's Kent Walton hosted UK wrestling broadcasts. One U.S. chat show I'd really like to see again is a Mike Douglas Show from 1973, which featured Spanky McFarland and Darla Hood of the Little Rascals (Our Gang) comedies as guests. I've never seen any footage of the broadcast since it originally aired. Marshall Five classic U.S. TV shows still unavailable on home video (not spam): marshfish.hubpages.com/hub/Five-classic-US-TV-shows-still-unavailable-on-home-videoand Five collectible Paul McCartney related compact discs (also not spam): marshfish.hubpages.com/hub/Five-collectible-Paul-McCartney-related-compact-disc-releasesSome Mike Douglas Shows are still around - the Lennon shows from 1972 most certainly are.
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Post by Peter Stirling on Jan 4, 2012 8:39:40 GMT
Unfortunately, so many American shows were wiped. That goes especially for a lot of the local station programming. The 2 inch and 1 inch tape were so expensive then, and as we know from the news story on John Henshall and the Jean Genie clip,very large in size. In the U.S. the local kids shows from the 60's and early to mid 70's , and national ones like (Paul) Winchell-Mahoney Time, Wonderama, Soupy Sales, and more weren't kept. The old U.S. pro wrestling territory shows were wiped and reused. I assume that was the case with the 1960's Kent Walton hosted UK wrestling broadcasts. One U.S. chat show I'd really like to see again is a Mike Douglas Show from 1973, which featured Spanky McFarland and Darla Hood of the Little Rascals (Our Gang) comedies as guests. I've never seen any footage of the broadcast since it originally aired. Marshall Five classic U.S. TV shows still unavailable on home video (not spam): marshfish.hubpages.com/hub/Five-classic-US-TV-shows-still-unavailable-on-home-videoand Five collectible Paul McCartney related compact discs (also not spam): marshfish.hubpages.com/hub/Five-collectible-Paul-McCartney-related-compact-disc-releasesIs Spanky Mcfarland part of Spanky & the Gang? ..they made great sound of the times didnt they? Soupy Sales made one appearance on UK TV in 'The Big Show' not sure if this still exists or not. The 1960s wrestling was probably made by Rediffusion or ABC (associated british corp) which had a similar story to Dumont TV in America- they lost their franchise to broadcast- and most of their archive remains missing to this day, although stuff does turn up under people's beds etc and Dave Clark of DC5 bought some Ready Steady Go shows, after they were found in the basement (once a studio)of a tax office .. In the UK, certain vinyl releases of 'back to the egg' were worth a fortune at one time. early Bowie CDs by RCA also fetch a premium.
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