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Post by John Andersen on Jan 25, 2008 19:20:24 GMT
Hi, I'm new in this forum but i have been reading these things for a long time. I'm Australian and i do beleive that we might have the missing episodes, all except for The Feast of Steven, which was never released anywhere else. All signs point to Ausrtalia having most of the Episodezs because the australian government hardly listens to anyone. My hopes is that episodes like that come into view soon. I think i read somewhere, that because they were such popular shows they didn't want to get rid of any of them. This does not sound promising because the BBC contacted Australia in the mid 80s to find out if they had any more missing Hartnell or Troughton episodes in their vaults. They had episode 4 of The Celestial Toymaker, but that was it. Almost 25 years have passed since they found that one episode. There is no realistic evidence to support a claim that one of those vaults has 107 of the missing episodes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2008 22:20:06 GMT
There infact has only been about 3 Episodes turn up since the Return of Tomb of the Cybermen in 1992 if my memory serves me correct ...
BY THE WAY CAN YOU TELL ME ,Does This forum have the facility to be notified of replies to this topic by Email
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on Jan 26, 2008 12:05:51 GMT
There infact has only been about 3 Episodes turn up since the Return of Tomb of the Cybermen in 1992 if my memory serves me correct ... BY THE WAY CAN YOU TELL ME ,Does This forum have the facility to be notified of replies to this topic by Email Only two missing episodes have been returned since 'Tomb', 'The Lion' and 'Day of Armageddon'.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2008 13:22:23 GMT
There infact has only been about 3 Episodes turn up since the Return of Tomb of the Cybermen in 1992 if my memory serves me correct ... BY THE WAY CAN YOU TELL ME ,Does This forum have the facility to be notified of replies to this topic by Email Only two missing episodes have been returned since 'Tomb', 'The Lion' and 'Day of Armageddon'. Well thats worse than I thought it was , But I always think the longer it goes the less likely-hood of usable versions being found after all Film unlike the Doctor is subject to the Rigours of Time
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Tom Tellam
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Post by Tom Tellam on Jan 28, 2008 16:06:11 GMT
good idea about putting an article in the Sydney press, I'm convinced that the most likely source of TV recovery is with videos that the general public hold and are unaware of there importance. quite possibly in new Zealand and Australia ex pats may have taken tapes from the UK when they emigrated so that they could watch shows from 'home'. so its possible that missing UK TV could be hiding in a loft in Sydney or Aukland! Without trying to sound rude, my whole point was that it is more likely that if missing episodes were ever recorded onto domestic video tape that it probably happened in Australia as they were shown more often and later (although I'm sceptical about the 1975 screenings, as the ABC normally shows the same programs nationally and simultaneously - give or take a day or so in the 60s and 70s if film had to be sent on from state to state).
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Tom Tellam
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Post by Tom Tellam on Jan 28, 2008 16:17:20 GMT
Perhaps some more intricate research on the actual dates of broadcasts of Third Doctor material across Australia is warranted? Full details of the complicated Australian screenings was researched by Martin Dunne and published in a couple of issues of the Chameleon Factor fanzine. A google search might result in a contact website for the club to get back issues. Jon Preddle That sounds like an interesting read by I suspect it was probably only researched in relation to one state and not all six (would it be too sarcastic to speculate that it was probably based on Sydney transmissions?). To do that one would have to spend about a week in each state going through local papers for about 8 hours a day! Although any research would paint a pretty solid picture as most spurts of transmissions have always been fairly well alligned (at least since about 1982 when I became an avid fan and barring daylight savings intervening at times!). I was thinking about going through the local listings in both local papers here in Tasmania from 1965 to circa 1980 to try and map out the nature of the broadcasts here but it would only be when that information was correlated with studies in the other states that one might get a feel for how the reels were moved around between capital cities. Otherwise the only benefit would be in the luxury of knowing when the stories were broadcast and from that get a sense of how likely it might have been that some may have been recorded. I'm flat out with a PhD at the moment anyway, but I've found that if the placement of information is consistent in a paper and the information is limited and easy to read, its amazing how quickly a decade can be wipped through. On the other hand if you are reading a hundred year old paper on a crappy micro-film reader, it's panadol time and cancel the holdiday!!!
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Post by Jon Preddle on Jan 29, 2008 20:43:18 GMT
Full details of the complicated Australian screenings was researched by Martin Dunne and published in a couple of issues of the Chameleon Factor fanzine. A google search might result in a contact website for the club to get back issues. Jon Preddle That sounds like an interesting read by I suspect it was probably only researched in relation to one state and not all six (would it be too sarcastic to speculate that it was probably based on Sydney transmissions?). The article summarises transmissions for Sydney, Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane and Canberra. Jon
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Post by madman on Feb 1, 2008 13:30:32 GMT
Dobrien, thanks for the info on Casino Royale. That makes sense, as cine film would be silent(?). The drama was, I thought, performed and transmitted live, though, so the recording that exists must have been done 'off a TV screen', albeit not domestically, in the manner of the Quatermass serials in the UK(?).
As regards my suggestion that technological developments mean material once recovered and stored digitally can only improve in quality, I mean as with the advent of VidFIRE and other image-processing facilities. Compare your old VHS version of The Seeds of Death – a straight 1980s transfer from the archived 16mm film recordings – with the DVD release. It absolutely blew me away.
The ability to enhance old film / video recordings in this way – even replace brief missing shots with CGI and paint out age flaws digitally – already means that poor source material can be greatly enhanced to 'recreate' the original. And there are new developments in this field all the time. (One day I have no doubt there will be a version of The Five Doctors released with a wholly convincing CG William Hartnell replacing poor old Richard Hurndall!)
So, anybody seen any movement on this, like a press campaign in Aussie cities? <clutches passing straw> Stu
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Post by Rich Cornock on Feb 1, 2008 18:12:38 GMT
maybe some Aussie enthusiast reading this could take the bull by the horns and contact a few newspaper reporters about recovery artcles?
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Post by Daniel O'Brien on Feb 1, 2008 20:20:27 GMT
Dobrien, thanks for the info on Casino Royale. That makes sense, as cine film would be silent(?). The drama was, I thought, performed and transmitted live, though, so the recording that exists must have been done 'off a TV screen', albeit not domestically, in the manner of the Quatermass serials in the UK(?). The ability to enhance old film / video recordings in this way – even replace brief missing shots with CGI and paint out age flaws digitally – already means that poor source material can be greatly enhanced to 'recreate' the original. And there are new developments in this field all the time. (One day I have no doubt there will be a version of The Five Doctors released with a wholly convincing CG William Hartnell replacing poor old Richard Hurndall!) So, anybody seen any movement on this, like a press campaign in Aussie cities? <clutches passing straw> Stu So far as I know, 'Casino Royale' was a live broadcast, film recorded off a TV monitor during transmission. 8mm sound film certainly existed but I don't know if it was around in the early 1950s. I'm all for restoration but not so keen on alteration. For example, 'Keys of Marinus' would benefit from a clean-up, but I wouldn't want William Hartnell's fluffed lines redubbed or the visible production assistant painted out of the picture. I'm sceptical of any more missing 'Who' being recovered from Australia. 'Celestial Toymaker' 4 came back, along with the censor clips and colour copies of several Jon Pertwee episodes. That's not a bad haul.
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Post by B Thomas on Feb 2, 2008 10:00:50 GMT
Likewise: it is unlikely any more recoveries will be made in NZ - although some people keep banging on about it...
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Post by Adrian Gregg on Feb 2, 2008 10:16:58 GMT
Blimey, a whole can-o-worms sice my last visit. but again nothing new said guys!! My source of info for the Queesnland repeats in 75 were from the actual papers themselfs. I was up north ripping up some carpet yonks ago and came across some papers, being a media nerd i went stright to the TV pages and yesiree it was pats storys on then (well thats what the papers said anyway)
But seriouisly there aint nothing here. there are loads and loads of who fans downunder who have a better understanding of whats lost that what I've read here in the last few years.
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Post by Adrian Gregg on Feb 2, 2008 10:42:17 GMT
as far as aussie newspapers tv etc.. been there done that.. sevral times in the past 25 years, and not focusing on dr who (to get some intrest first) there are loads of homegrown TV lost, and i'd start the press sheet with that first. talking about the technology involded at the time the possible film recoverys and a potted history of the home recording methods for vision and audio. (the last one i sent even had a cd of selected highlights of INPORTANT HISTORICAL audio that ive transferd (properly with real turntables, TE Stulus Many types, Real Preamp that i made to work with many discs, and a restoration platform i developed., im also a broadcaster and made up a 5 min showcase of my many many 16 inch TS home cut restorations. ) hell i even have the assetate that the ABC used to start thier very 1st TV bdcasts .. (found falling to pices and can't be played, in a bin at my previous work!!) but after all this nothing not a sausage. no on cares .. just get that idea on board.
Im a professioal and have worked in the media for years. and yes have had THE job to open the "DR WHO" letters and respond to the 100's of letters every day asking politley for us to look for any dr who film cans.. but leave the missing pete and dud and all those till death do us part, joe orton plays. forget those WHO CARES, its DR WHO its the ONLY show worth ANY consideration in the preservation stakes..
wanna know somthing that may make the "true" hunter's heart break? about 10 years ago i saw some 16mm prints of VERY VERY VERY VERY important missing shows at a film fair, My heart skiped a beat and i ran to the nearest ATM to withdraw all my funds!! i went back and all the cans were gone. i grilled the guy about them and he said "oh yes had some crazy Dr No (sic) fans here but all i had were till death (the titles he mentioned were very missing and about 90% of whats now gone and loads and loads of other prints again shows that i won't bother the WHO fans here with.
well the who fans went away. and some crazy stoned uni guys bought everything to cut up and melt to make jewelwry with !!
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Post by Ron Bowes on Feb 2, 2008 12:00:11 GMT
Ahh! So. it's the Who fans' fault! Not the Beeb for trashing epiodes of "till death" or the seller, who patently didn't want the episodes and apparently didn't care who he sold them to, or even the stoned uni guys! IT's the unthinking Who fans! If I was at a film fair and they had an ultra rare episode of "Coronation Street" I would have no interest in saving it whatsoever. I'd leave it for the soap fans to save. If I had seen "till death" I would have bought them - because I have an interest in them. You really can't expect somone to spend their hard earned cash on something they don't like just to save for prosterity! That should be the job of the corporations who created the problem in the first place - or the very least, the fans of the show!
Ron
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Tom Tellam
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Post by Tom Tellam on Feb 2, 2008 15:01:32 GMT
That sounds like an interesting read by I suspect it was probably only researched in relation to one state and not all six (would it be too sarcastic to speculate that it was probably based on Sydney transmissions?). The article summarises transmissions for Sydney, Adelaide, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane and Canberra. Jon Well Tasmania hasn't been done yet has it.
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