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Post by John Wall on May 8, 2023 9:12:56 GMT
The one I personally was thinking of was the case Paul Vanezis discussed of episodes being held by a collector. It's been years now, if it was all a hoax we would have heard a correction by now.
We aren't going to be privy to everything (and frankly we shouldn't be) but a lack of information resulting in certain portions of the fanbase breaking out into speculation is very different from suggesting the whole thing is just hearsay and rumours. All we know is that there is stuff out there, that's it. All we can do is continue to wait and be patient.
This is why I was somewhat wary of you using words like "confirmed" in this context. Paul said in 2019 that he has seen the cans, but not the films themselves, so he isn't in a position to confirm that the contents match what's written on the outside. I don't believe that Paul is engaged in any "delicate long-term negotiations" with these. He knows where the cans are and he knows who owns them, but until the individual concerned chooses to allow the BBC access to them to professionally check the contents (i.e. not just put them on a projector to show them), they're not really confirmed either way at this moment in time. That’s always been my view - until the likes of PV actually see the film and what’s on it no-one is certain.
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Post by andyparting on May 8, 2023 10:59:33 GMT
Phil Morris 2020 -
“I have a lot of friends who are collectors… and I will tell you straight away now that at least six episodes – missing episodes – exist, to my knowledge, in the hands of private collectors.”
I personally wouldn't want to dispute the claim of a man who (so I was told) can do 100 one-armed press-ups per day.
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Post by Angel Amezquita (Angelgreat) on May 8, 2023 15:04:57 GMT
Phil Morris 2020 - “I have a lot of friends who are collectors… and I will tell you straight away now that at least six episodes – missing episodes – exist, to my knowledge, in the hands of private collectors.” I personally wouldn't want to dispute the claim of a man who (so I was told) can do 100 one-armed press-ups per day. If Phil can get the episodes from the collectors without revealing their identities, that will be OK. We get more missing episodes and they get to remain anonymous.
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Post by John Wall on May 8, 2023 15:25:48 GMT
Phil Morris 2020 - “I have a lot of friends who are collectors… and I will tell you straight away now that at least six episodes – missing episodes – exist, to my knowledge, in the hands of private collectors.” I personally wouldn't want to dispute the claim of a man who (so I was told) can do 100 one-armed press-ups per day. “Trust but verify” is worth remembering. Has PM actually verified these MEs?
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Post by andyparting on May 8, 2023 15:57:04 GMT
That quote's all we've had so far, John. I'm going to take a gamble on what's behind Bully's special prize board and throw a 'verified' dart.
My question would be: if he's said this, does it mean he's already secured these episodes? Can't do negotiations any good, surely, broadcasting that information before you've got them?
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Post by kurt devery on May 8, 2023 16:54:35 GMT
These films (if they indeed are what the labels say) remain missing until such a time (if it ever comes) the BBC have them. We are no closer to recovering missing who here than the day this revelation was made. On to the next lead in the mean while if/when it comes
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Post by John Wall on May 8, 2023 20:22:20 GMT
That quote's all we've had so far, John. I'm going to take a gamble on what's behind Bully's special prize board and throw a 'verified' dart. My question would be: if he's said this, does it mean he's already secured these episodes? Can't do negotiations any good, surely, broadcasting that information before you've got them? I hope you’re right but we’ve had a lot of false dawns - maybe more than four hundred! - over the years. Without more information I’d accept the existence of WoF3 as it’s a reasonable assumption that it was in a can in the pile when PM first got into the store in Jos. As to anything else…..I’ve speculated - albeit without any evidence! - that there might be something for the sixtieth anniversary.
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Post by kurt devery on May 8, 2023 21:26:45 GMT
Who remembers the tenth planet part 4 situation the tape was blank after it was played. We have have been here before. I think quiet rightly the BBC would proceed with caution if a similar situation ever materializes again. The bottom line is the cans can say what they like it's the contents that are key
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Post by scotttelfer on May 8, 2023 23:43:41 GMT
The one I personally was thinking of was the case Paul Vanezis discussed of episodes being held by a collector. It's been years now, if it was all a hoax we would have heard a correction by now.
We aren't going to be privy to everything (and frankly we shouldn't be) but a lack of information resulting in certain portions of the fanbase breaking out into speculation is very different from suggesting the whole thing is just hearsay and rumours. All we know is that there is stuff out there, that's it. All we can do is continue to wait and be patient.
This is why I was somewhat wary of you using words like "confirmed" in this context. Paul said in 2019 that he has seen the cans, but not the films themselves, so he isn't in a position to confirm that the contents match what's written on the outside. I don't believe that Paul is engaged in any "delicate long-term negotiations" with these. He knows where the cans are and he knows who owns them, but until the individual concerned chooses to allow the BBC access to them to professionally check the contents (i.e. not just put them on a projector to show them), they're not really confirmed either way at this moment in time.
While I understand your perspective, I would hope you can also see mine that it is wrong to describe this situation as a "rumour". We don't know the content of those film cans (or indeed if it matches the description) and likely won't for many more years, but we do have some hard facts to actually go off which is more than can be said for virtually every other claim that has been made over the past few decades.
There is a private collector out there who believes they have missing Doctor Who episodes in their collection. The hypothetical situation exists (thankfully not as bad as it could be here), even if it's Schrodinger's film cans sitting in the middle of it all.
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Post by John Wall on May 9, 2023 9:04:07 GMT
Nowadays it’s easy to check online to see if something is in an archive - but there have been a lot of hoaxes.
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 9, 2023 11:04:58 GMT
This is why I was somewhat wary of you using words like "confirmed" in this context. Paul said in 2019 that he has seen the cans, but not the films themselves, so he isn't in a position to confirm that the contents match what's written on the outside. I don't believe that Paul is engaged in any "delicate long-term negotiations" with these. He knows where the cans are and he knows who owns them, but until the individual concerned chooses to allow the BBC access to them to professionally check the contents (i.e. not just put them on a projector to show them), they're not really confirmed either way at this moment in time. While I understand your perspective, I would hope you can also see mine that it is wrong to describe this situation as a "rumour". We don't know the content of those film cans (or indeed if it matches the description) and likely won't for many more years, but we do have some hard facts to actually go off which is more than can be said for virtually every other claim that has been made over the past few decades. There is a private collector out there who believes they have missing Doctor Who episodes in their collection. The hypothetical situation exists (thankfully not as bad as it could be here), even if it's Schrodinger's film cans sitting in the middle of it all.
Yes, I do understand that. But that's still a long way from calling the existence of previously missing episodes "confirmed", which was the word in your post that I was querying. If you're describing the existence of something being hypothetical, then that's not the same as it being confirmed.
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Post by Ian Ritchie on May 14, 2023 14:10:16 GMT
I think jarrodcook’s original idea has merits. Inspired by it, here’s my suggestion:
The next time an individual returns a missing episode (I realise I’m being optimistic here), ask them if there’s a particular charity they support. Pass that information to us fans and we could then show our appreciation for their generosity by donating to that charity (perhaps citing them as the reason).
The individual doesn’t gain financially themselves, but something materially good comes of their action (outwith the world of Dr Who fandom, that is), so there is a reward of sorts. And no hoaxer would benefit because this would only come after they’ve loaned the BBC their film.
This might encourage others with missing material to let the BBC borrow it.
I’d like to think that, for a lot of fans, the idea of thanking the individual for their kindness would be reason enough to donate. The added dimension – that their donation might do something to bring about the return of more – could encourage many more to give and, potentially, raise a substantial sum for charity.
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Post by Frank Shailes on May 15, 2023 11:13:15 GMT
Do the cans that Paul Vanezis claims to have seen have any titles on them? Since it is speculation that they may or may not contain "something", there's surely no harm in saying what it is supposed to be.
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Post by Richard Bignell on May 15, 2023 11:23:41 GMT
Do the cans that Paul Vanezis claims to have seen have any titles on them? Since it is speculation that they may or may not contain "something", there's surely no harm in saying what it is supposed to be. Paul doesn't wish to do that.
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Post by peterconvery on May 15, 2023 19:45:05 GMT
Who remembers the tenth planet part 4 situation the tape was blank after it was played. We have have been here before. I think quiet rightly the BBC would proceed with caution if a similar situation ever materializes again. The bottom line is the cans can say what they like it's the contents that are key Did they actually get a tape? What format was it - vhs / betamax/ 1or2 inch reel to reel?
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