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Post by Tim Burrows on Nov 5, 2018 23:14:41 GMT
I don't think it is a minor point of difference. It's the difference between reading what's actually there and inventing something that isn't - especially given that quite a number of fans have then repeated that "detail" ad infinitum today without bothering to check for themselves. The BFI have always shown interest in the animations, be it from Doctor Who or Dad's Army, so why wouldn't they be interested in slotting in a ten minute piece if it's offered to them? And if you've ever been a MBW event, you'll know that they show all sorts of oddities. It is a minor point of difference because either circumstance is a bit odd IMO. I don't understand why it would be specifically put together for it! It's an odd thing to dream up specifically for the event, as stated. Charles and Rob were sitting around one afternoon bored and one of them suddenly had the idea to do a 10 minute minisode of Wheel episode 1? The other one thought "by golly, that's a good idea. I'll get Dick on the phone!" Now maybe something like that happened. Or it was commissioned, even though that hasn't been stated. Both seem equally random to me, not least because there's genuine other missing material they could have screened and a completely randomly offered 10 minute DW animation seems less worthy of a spot. YMMV.
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Post by charles drummel on Nov 5, 2018 23:43:55 GMT
I don't think it is a minor point of difference. It's the difference between reading what's actually there and inventing something that isn't - especially given that quite a number of fans have then repeated that "detail" ad infinitum today without bothering to check for themselves. The BFI have always shown interest in the animations, be it from Doctor Who or Dad's Army, so why wouldn't they be interested in slotting in a ten minute piece if it's offered to them? And if you've ever been a MBW event, you'll know that they show all sorts of oddities. It is a minor point of difference because either circumstance is a bit odd IMO. I don't understand why it would be specifically put together for it! It's an odd thing to dream up specifically for the event, as stated. Charles and Rob were sitting around one afternoon bored and one of them suddenly had the idea to do a 10 minute minisode of Wheel episode 1? The other one thought "by golly, that's a good idea. I'll get Dick on the phone!" Now maybe something like that happened. Or it was commissioned, even though that hasn't been stated. Both seem equally random to me, not least because there's genuine other missing material they could have screened and a completely randomly offered 10 minute DW animation seems less worthy of a spot. YMMV. I suppose the question is: who is paying for it? Richard is right that (as far as I know) it hasn't been stated to be commissioned by the BFI. But it does seem, based on what Charles said, to have been commissioned for showing at MBW. Did BBC Studios budget this minisode specifically for MBW? If so, why? What Charles said clearly suggests that inclusion on a DVD or BD at a later date is not the primary purpose for this.
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Post by Nicholas Fitzpatrick on Nov 6, 2018 20:17:09 GMT
But it does seem, based on what Charles said, to have been commissioned for showing at MBW. Where are you getting this "commissioned" bit from? I don't see this in anything Charles has posted that I have seen. That's potentially a big leap!
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Post by charles drummel on Nov 6, 2018 20:26:09 GMT
But it does seem, based on what Charles said, to have been commissioned for showing at MBW. Where are you getting this "commissioned" bit from? I don't see this in anything Charles has posted that I have seen. That's potentially a big leap! I was mostly emphasizing the fact that it was not necessarily being commissioned by the BFI despite being for that event. I think that might be lost in the partial quote. Apologies, I guess I'm not necessarily familiar enough with the terminology. Is it not reasonable to even use the word at all, then? Even if it's internally commissioned? I don't mean to use it as a loaded term or anything. A decision was made to produce an animation, by someone, somewhere.
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Post by DavidGreene on Nov 7, 2018 8:33:44 GMT
Very interesting.
First off it's great regardless that we are getting more animated episodes regardless of length, but that length is rather strange.
Do we know if it just the first ten minutes of the first episode of Wheel or an abridged 10 minute version of episode 1?
If it's the former, I find it really odd that they would only choose to animate the first ten minutes of the story with no plans on animating the rest.
If it's the latter then that does leave open an new possibility for what they might be planning, that instead of a full animated reconstruction, they only do a condensed animated reconstruction (the missing episode only having about 10 minutes of animation per episode) while including a full telesnap only reconstruction on the DVD as well, basically a reverse of what they did with the Ice Warriors DVD, which had the animated episodes at full episode length while the telesnap reconstruction was the condensed version.
And if that were the case as well as a potential Macra Terror reconstruction possibly in the works, then that would work out to be around 6 episodes of animation, roughly the same length as the Power of the Daleks animated reconstruction.
But then again this is just speculation on my end.
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Post by Robbie Moubert on Nov 7, 2018 9:30:22 GMT
I'm saying nothing until I've had a dream about it...
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Post by Timothy Austin on Nov 7, 2018 19:42:37 GMT
The only picture released so far from 'The Wheel in Space' animation is in colour. But surely if all four missing episodes were animated in colour, then it would be jarring with the two black and white surviving episodes. I reckon if a DVD is released it will all be in black and white. I reckon what the BFI are presenting is a condensed version of episode 1 in colour, and maybe this would only feature as an extra on a future DVD.
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Post by timmunton on Nov 8, 2018 0:07:53 GMT
I think you're right; it would indeed jar.
Also, I bought the colour Power some time back, just to see if it would work. Watching with an open mind, after a few minutes a sense of initial novelty wore off and I found the colour aspect mildly irritating & found that it sharply depleted the all-important atmospherics which contribute hugely to what makes '60s Who the wonder which it is. After about an episode & a bit I switched to the b & w version (which was fine).
I feel reasonably sure that even with a different colour palette (eg an old-style technicolor feel ) I would almost certainly feel the same. Due to this I didn't like the look of that Wheel image from the new animated minisode.
Any future releases I'll stick with the b & w version (if available) - unless the color one again includes the b & w version & has interesting special features not on a 'just' b & w version.
What would be horrible would be if future animations were only in colour - I would trust that is a route that won't be taken (?), especially as it would be quite insulting to fans, particularly given the lack of care with which the original episodes were treated once broadcast. And that b & w was of course integral to their original production design.
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Post by timmunton on Nov 8, 2018 0:49:22 GMT
Also ep 1 only of Wheel seems a strange choice because the Loose Cannon ep 1 (2nd version ie LC34) is probably the best recon of an individual episode ever made - in terms of overall look - imo.
This is because of the amazing way in which their CGI person (sorry I have forgotten the name of the person who did that magnificent work on this recon) when animating/processing the servo robot scenes (& some others) somehow manages to beautifully recreate something fairly close to the actual visual texture of old programmes - through what video processing magic I don't know. Combined with the servo robot looking & moving just right, it's almost like watching some rediscovered clips.
Part of the reason it works so well is because it's set in a metallic looking environment, which is helpful to a uniformity of texture (& then plus the processing of this look via whatever means were used).
Loose Cannon use the technique for this look on one or two other recons I think. Evil comes to mind - & there it also works excellently when in a metallic-ish fairly minimal environment ie inside the dalek city on Skaro, whereas elsewhere eg in the laborotary/mansion scenes good indeed, but not at the same level.
But, as mentioned it is in Wheel 1 where this technique is at it's very finest imho - so accordingly it sets a very high bar for any other recon of it; animated or otherwise.
I should say that generally I prefer the LC recons but have liked most of the official animations (Moonbase I thought was the best animation - very good indeed - followed, a little way behind, by the b & w Power).
For those who don't like recons and haven't seen it; I would say check out the Wheel 1 servo robot & related scenes, as mentioned, on the LC34 recon, as although it no doubt won't change your opinion about recons in general, I think you may well enjoy those bits a lot.
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Post by charles drummel on Nov 8, 2018 1:05:13 GMT
I agree with you that Wheel 1 by LC may be the best recon out there. I don't really think that is problematic for a potential animation, though. It does make the Britbox decision seem a bit odd. They could have chosen most other stories with telesnaps and ended up with something that doesn't fall as far short of the Loose Cannon.
You may be thinking of their Enemy and Web recons that had similarly slick CGI. I believe it was Iz Skinner who did that work, possibly with Stuart Palmer. The official Galaxy 4 Recon was similarly of high quality, with good 3D animation.
In any case, animations tend to go over much better for DVDs than reconstructions do. Rob Ritchie has done a great job with the 3D elements in recent productions, and I have no doubt that he would do so with the Servobot, Cybermen, Cybermats, etc, if a full project was done.
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Post by timmunton on Nov 8, 2018 1:26:40 GMT
Yes, Charles the other ones you mention were also very good & especially Galaxy 4 on the BBC DVD, which, like Wheel 1, was sublime - just a shame it was abridged; I hope they release a full-length version one day.
The name Iz Skinner, which you mention, does ring a bell - Thank you to them! What incredible work.
Also; I think I read somewhere - maybe here at this forum, that the Britbox Wheel includes actual elements of the LC Wheel recon - but maybe I'm misremembering that (happens more than it used to these days!)
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Post by charles drummel on Nov 8, 2018 2:20:58 GMT
Also; I think I read somewhere - maybe here at this forum, that the Britbox Wheel includes actual elements of the LC Wheel recon - but maybe I'm misremembering that (happens more than it used to these days!) You're correct. They were allowed to use still frames from the Loose Cannon recon. The project itself wasn't commissioned to have moving video, though.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Nov 8, 2018 5:55:05 GMT
I don't think this 10-minute animation is a bizarre thing at all. I am sure it will be extremely entertaining and will serve a useful purpose.
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Nov 8, 2018 6:00:31 GMT
I anticipate that it might very well be shown approximately from 17:35 to 17:45 (assuming that segments during the event keep to their scheduled times).
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Post by Douglas Wulf on Nov 16, 2018 6:48:08 GMT
Very interesting. First off it's great regardless that we are getting more animated episodes regardless of length, but that length is rather strange. Do we know if it just the first ten minutes of the first episode of Wheel or an abridged 10 minute version of episode 1? If it's the former, I find it really odd that they would only choose to animate the first ten minutes of the story with no plans on animating the rest. If it's the latter then that does leave open an new possibility for what they might be planning, that instead of a full animated reconstruction, they only do a condensed animated reconstruction (the missing episode only having about 10 minutes of animation per episode) while including a full telesnap only reconstruction on the DVD as well, basically a reverse of what they did with the Ice Warriors DVD, which had the animated episodes at full episode length while the telesnap reconstruction was the condensed version. And if that were the case as well as a potential Macra Terror reconstruction possibly in the works, then that would work out to be around 6 episodes of animation, roughly the same length as the Power of the Daleks animated reconstruction. But then again this is just speculation on my end. The two still pictures released from the animated mini-episode depict situations found in the first four minutes or so of episode 1.
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