Evil and Tomb

[John Wall]

This is something I generated a little while ago - and shared with Jon Preddle - and just rediscovered.

It shows all the information I could track down from various sources regarding prints of Evil and Tomb.

As can be seen there had to be at least three prints.

The broadcast dates - which were printed in advance - suggested that two episodes of Tomb were (intended to be) broadcast in Hong Kong and then the whole thing was shown later. What I think happened was that Tomb was sent, early, to Singapore (with Evil) and had to be returned to Hong Kong - from where it was returned in 1991. Had that error not happened Tomb would have remained in Singapore and, presumably, suffered the same fate as their prints of Evil.

Of the other two sets those in New Zealand seem to have to been destroyed and Evil 2 seems to have been from the Australian set that were returned to the UK.

[zaqwilson]

Excellent work John!

Still holding hope that Singapore prints, fate unknown, may filter back if they (some or all) still exist.

[Chris Wilkinson]

Good logic, John. 'The Evil of the Daleks' #2 was almost certainly from the Australian batch, just like 'Galaxy 4' #3. It may cast a tiny glimmer of hope for any other pre-empted broadcasts that never were.

Zaq, if Singapore prints still existed, we'd surely have had something turn up by now. So far we've had nothing back from Singapore, strongly suggesting all prints were indeed returned and destroyed (by my research, between 1973/4 as that's when many serials became unavailable to purchase).

Future recoveries look very bleak indeed, though I along with several others are banking on 'The Wheel in Space' being one of the few candidates still up for recovery.

[zaqwilson]

Likely destroyed, but not for sure. Possible they lie in darkness waiting for the light of day or were scooped up by a collector. These are very unlikely, but within the realm of possibilities.

[Richard Marple]

Feb 21, 2018 0:30:38 GMT Chris Wilkinson said:

Good logic, John. 'The Evil of the Daleks' #2 was almost certainly from the Australian batch, just like 'Galaxy 4' #3. It may cast a tiny glimmer of hope for any other pre-empted broadcasts that never were.

Zaq, if Singapore prints still existed, we'd surely have had something turn up by now. So far we've had nothing back from Singapore, strongly suggesting all prints were indeed returned and destroyed (by my research, between 1973/4 as that's when many serials became unavailable to purchase).

Future recoveries look very bleak indeed, though I along with several others are banking on 'The Wheel in Space' being one of the few candidates still up for recovery.

Were any prints sent elsewhere after being screened in Singapore, or have all the bicycling chains been examined?

[John Wall]

Feb 21, 2018 16:30:27 GMT zaqwilson said:

Likely destroyed, but not for sure. Possible they lie in darkness waiting for the light of day or were scooped up by a collector. These are very unlikely, but within the realm of possibilities.

I think they’re gone:-( We’re actually very lucky to have the five episodes we’ve got. If Tomb hadn’t been returned to Hong Kong and Evil 2 hadn’t been “rescued” from the 75 Australia returns.....

it’s possible that the Evil prints in Singapore were, accidentally, bicycled somewhere but it’s more likely that they were destroyed or returned to the UK and destroyed.

My conclusion, albeit reluctantly, is that it’s just about possible that another episode of Evil might, somehow, have “escaped” but perhaps Auntie oughta be thinking about more animation.

[John Wall]

Feb 21, 2018 18:02:23 GMT Richard Marple said:

Feb 21, 2018 0:30:38 GMT Chris Wilkinson said:

Good logic, John. 'The Evil of the Daleks' #2 was almost certainly from the Australian batch, just like 'Galaxy 4' #3. It may cast a tiny glimmer of hope for any other pre-empted broadcasts that never were.

Zaq, if Singapore prints still existed, we'd surely have had something turn up by now. So far we've had nothing back from Singapore, strongly suggesting all prints were indeed returned and destroyed (by my research, between 1973/4 as that's when many serials became unavailable to purchase).

Future recoveries look very bleak indeed, though I along with several others are banking on 'The Wheel in Space' being one of the few candidates still up for recovery.

Were any prints sent elsewhere after being screened in Singapore, or have all the bicycling chains been examined?

gallifreybase.com/w/index.php/The_Evil_of_the_Daleks

[Deleted]

Feb 21, 2018 0:30:38 GMT Chris Wilkinson said:

Zaq, if Singapore prints still existed, we'd surely have had something turn up by now.

As far as I'm aware, very few groups, or no groups prior to T.I.E.A have actually done an international boots-on-the-ground search to confirm if the Singapore prints are still out there. It appears that Phil Morris group is the only ones so far to have searched to the extent of no-stone-unturned. If the Singapore prints have been found I don't think we'll be hearing about them turning up anytime soon, given what happened to Web of Fear 3 and 'something else'. Much appears to have been done in secrecy since.

One could say on the other hand that if the Singapore prints had been returned to the UK around 1973/74, something would have turned up, as well, document-wise to confirm these returns? I would be interested to hear about your research, Chris. Because I've never come across anything other than speculation about the Singapore prints. This cannot be said for the Australia returns, the New Zealand landfill site, and recently, Sierra Leone, for which Phil Morris found paperwork evidence that episodes were sent back to the BBC. But for Singapore, I know that there is speculation that the Ice Warriors recoveries from BBC Enterprises in 1988 were from Singapore, but again no firm evidence. Have you come across any paper work that proves the BBC received these film cans back from Singapore, Chris?

I can't wait to hear one day about what T.I.E.A has turned up about the fate of these prints, even to know that some paperwork evidence has been discovered, as with the case of Sierra Leone.

[Deleted]

Future recoveries look very bleak indeed

I think they’re gone:-(


Have faith, my brothers...

[Deleted]

Feb 21, 2018 0:30:38 GMT Chris Wilkinson said:

though I along with several others are banking on 'The Wheel in Space' being one of the few candidates still up for recovery.

This apparent Wheel in Space recovery story comes from a misreporting of an event recently in Australia, Chris, where a film collection was offered that contained Wheel in Space episodes. Rumour got around that these were missing episodes. Not so. I heard this mentioned on a webcast recently. I can post the link on here for you if interested.

[John Wall]

Evil and Tomb seem to have been a “pair” because of the clearance issues, etc.

Tomb had to be sent back to Hong Kong because (I suggest) it had been sent to Singapore early, with Evil - perhaps the 11 prints were in the same container? It may be that Enterprises didn’t know. Tomb was broadcast (late) in Hong Kong and then sat on a shelf for a couple of decades before being returned to the UK.

Evil was broadcast in Hong Kong and then sent (with Tomb) to Singapore. Enterprises might have “forgotten” about them as they were only eleven episodes and colour was arriving.

Singapore is quite a small island and I suspect that, in the absence of instructions from the UK, the prints of Evil were probably binned after a while or on the move to new premises.

[Chris Wilkinson]

Feb 21, 2018 18:02:23 GMT Richard Marple said:

Feb 21, 2018 0:30:38 GMT Chris Wilkinson said:

Were any prints sent elsewhere after being screened in Singapore, or have all the bicycling chains been examined?

In the case of 'The Celestial Toymaker', its final screening took place in Singapore in 1973 - the same year the serial was removed from overseas sales, despite information suggesting that a print was returned from Sierra Leone the following year in 1974. The difficulty is in making the distinction between where prints were screened and where they were stored ready for return. The old T.I.E. documentation makes reference to 'bicycling hubs' (London was one of them). I feel that if we find out where the other hubs were abroad, we'd have more information as to the movement of the overseas prints, but it would appear that the documentation either hasn't been looked for or no longer exists. The key point is that a final screening date is not indicative of a time-bound recall/destruction date as it would appear that prints were systematically destroyed from country to country, as opposed to serial by serial all in one go.

One could say on the other hand that if the Singapore prints had been returned to the UK around 1973/74, something would have turned up, as well, document-wise to confirm these returns? I would be interested to hear about your research, Chris.

Not necessarily. Not all the documentation of the time still exists or can be located. Recovery experts in the past have said that Singapore is a black hole in terms of surviving documentation.

My research has taken into account various statements made by the experts on these forums and elsewhere (Phil Morris, Paul Vanezis etc.) and the information provided by BroaDWcast and Missing Episodes BlogSpot to essentially join the dots. It is purely speculative with a good dose of logic, but to me it makes a lot of sense.

I've made a spreadsheet that tracks the year-by-year movements of prints, their final screening dates and the final recall/destruction dates. It shows when the master tapes were erased, when the films were removed from overseas sales, which audits they appeared in (1976 BBC audit, 1977 Film Library audit and 1978 Villiers House audit) etc. Using the spreadsheet, I can clearly see correlations between when things were destroyed and whether they exist now. I've then ranked the serials in terms of how likely a print is to survive based on the number of countries that purchased the serials. This has produced, in my mind, a highly accurate probability tracker for the return of missing serials. As you'd expect, serials such as 'The Power of the Daleks' and 'The Tenth Planet' are near the very bottom as its thought that only two prints were ever struck of these serials. However, there are a couple of interesting anomalies. For example, 'The Wheel in Space' was removed from sale during 1974, with all prints being destroyed that year - but it was shown in Nigeria in 1975. Obviously, the 'sales' period is separate to the 'broadcast' period, but there is no record of the serial being returned in 1976/77 when the broadcast rights would have ended. This is why I believe it to be such a strong candidate for recovery, though in saying that, 1976 was also the year 'Galaxy 4' was destroyed (and from which #3 has been recovered) potentially along with 'The Space Pirates' having recently been returned from Zambia.

I don't listen to news reports as they are highly inaccurate - one only has to think back to the Daily Mirror falsely stating that over 90 missing episodes had been found back in 2013. All my research comes from people in the know, and the information that has been found out about these things.

[John Wall]

Collecting the data in a spreadsheet is a first rate idea - the chart in the first post is from an Excel spreadsheet. Personally I find that a graphical presentation is hard to beat and this clearly showed three prints.

It’s also important to factor in geography and history. Africa, for example, is a very big place and Nigeria is a long way from Kenya ! It’s a while since I looked but I recall something like a Gibraltar - Cyprus - Aden - East Africa sequence for some of the Hartnells which looked rather like transport by sea through the Mediterranean and Suez Canal. The Suez Canal was closed during the Six Day War in 1967, following which broadcasts in East Africa stopped - cause and effect ? I also believe that, in the early days, transport - particularly to the smaller broadcasters was by sea. Many weren’t paying much per episode/story and I doubt that air transport, if available, would have been too expensive. I did a quick look for sea routes/schedules in the 60s but didn’t have much luck:-(

In terms of “hubs” I’d suggest Australia as, in those days, they needed to send prints around to cover the whole country..

The “world” of international TV was very different then and we need to try and understand it.

[Jon Preddle]

Feb 22, 2018 12:39:56 GMT Chris Wilkinson said:

The old T.I.E. documentation makes reference to 'bicycling hubs' (London was one of them). I feel that if we find out where the other hubs were abroad, we'd have more information as to the movement of the overseas prints.....

TIE only had one "hub", and it was in London. There is zero evidence they had another, even in New York which was their second main distribution office.

If they did have one in Africa, it wouldnt still be in operation. Who is paying the rent / lease / rates / insurance on the premises? Who is paying the electricity bill? What about staff wages?

[Chris Wilkinson]

Feb 22, 2018 17:32:20 GMT Jon Preddle said:

Feb 22, 2018 12:39:56 GMT Chris Wilkinson said:

The old T.I.E. documentation makes reference to 'bicycling hubs' (London was one of them). I feel that if we find out where the other hubs were abroad, we'd have more information as to the movement of the overseas prints.....

TIE only had one "hub", and it was in London. There is zero evidence they had another, even in New York which was their second main distribution office.

If they did have one in Africa, it wouldnt still be in operation. Who is paying the rent / lease / rates / insurance on the premises? Who is paying the electricity bill? What about staff wages?

It depends how one defines 'hub'. I think of it not as a designated office or warehouse in an foreign country, but more like a collection point in a certain region so that films are easier to deliver/recall (primarily to save on shipping costs, but also to ensure that the BBC et al know the precise location of any film prints overseas). This could take the form of one of the broadcasting stations, for example.

Suppose Gibraltar was a 'hub' for one set of film prints, as the shipping map displayed on GallifreyBase indicates this as being a feasible sea route from Britain. This hub would be the first to receive say 'Marco Polo' in the bicycling chain before passing it on to countries such as Nigeria (by sea), then Ghana (by land), then Sierra Leone (by land), before returning it to Gibraltar (by sea) who then either hold on the prints for further redistribution elsewhere or sends them back to Britain. It wouldn't need a proper warehouse or office or anything, just somewhere to keep hold of the prints for a temporary period of time.