What's Written on the Label?

[Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy]

Recently there was a Reddit "situation". I'll quickly summarize by saying someone made a post about finding a reel of Dr Who film in their Grandmother's basement and didn't know what to do with it. The posts have been since deleted. I won't call it a hoax and I won't call it real, and I don't think a discussion about its merit is needed.


MY question is about what could or couldn't be written on the reels of old Dr. Who episodes.

The poster was asked what was on the label and he replied with "It has labelling outside of one of them. As I have found for now. It says "Dr Who Battle Culloden" which sparked my interest in digging in deeper in her boxes."

The Highlanders were known as Episodes 1, 2, 3, and 4. They did not have specific titles. However, the story once had the working title "Culloden".

Could it be feasible that a reel of Highlander material could exist with the title "Battle [of] Culloden"? Either an episode, reel of inserts, pre-editing material, etc? Or would that just not be a thing?


Again, I don't care if it is real or not. It's only real for me if they follow through and contact someone at the BBC. I'm more curious to know if its feasible a reel could have an alternate name to it that no one would've anticipated.

[Jon Preddle]

Of the half dozen or so original Doctor Who films cans I've seen -- including the glimpses of the Web of Fear cans that were shown on TV in 2013 -- they've only ever had the words "Dr Who" "Serial {code}" "Episode {no}" on the BBC label. The onscreen episode name or serial title was only ever written onto the station's own labels.

If the example you cite were true (it's clearly a hoax), and it did have "Battle Culloden" written on it, such a title would not have been written on any labels by the BBC or by a TV station, but could perhaps have been written onto a label by a film collector, who did so as a prompt to describe what the film was about.

ETA: I'm reminded of a similar discussion about what should be on the labels, back in 2012:
missingepisodes.proboards.com/thread/8092/search-engine-visibility?page=2

[Richard Bignell]

May 3, 2016 0:08:55 GMT Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy said:

The Highlanders were known as Episodes 1, 2, 3, and 4. They did not have specific titles. However, the story once had the working title "Culloden".

It was, but only at the very earliest stages of the story's gestation. By the time it was anywhere near being written, it had already become The Highlanders.

The only time you might conceivably have a working title on a film can is if it contained location or model film inserts that had been shot when the production had gone before the camera with an earlier title that later changed, although I've never actually seen any that have been marked in that way.

There wouldn't be any reason for a telerecording of an episode to be marked up with a working title, as it would have been made either during or after the episode's transmission, at which point the title would have been very much fixed.

As Jon indicates, I don't think I've ever seen any genuine official BBC Enterprises label that has listed the story or episode title, just the series code and episode number.

To be honest, I'm not even sure that even a collector would personally label an episode from The Highlanders as "Battle Culloden". By the time the story begins, the battle is over and it's only ever mentioned once in the dialogue. Given that the story isn't about the battle, it's not a very helpful descriptor.

[John Green]

I suspect that it was wise not to name a story after an epic conflict which isn't seen onscreen.

"Will you look at that,Doctor!".
"What,Jamie?".
"Wheesht,it's gone now!".

(And yes,I know that they hadn't actually met at the time of the battle).

[Steven Sigel]

Mark - unlike you, I will call it a hoax

[Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy]

Over the last few years since 2013 I've slowly adopted the mantra of "I'll believe it when I see it" (Thank You, Paul).

The individual on Reddit asked what to do with a possible find and someone told him how to contact the right people. That's where it ends for me.

Others were demanding pictures, calling him out on facts, asking him if there is more, wondering where he lived, etc. I just don't see the purpose in doing that.

If he's a hoaxer then responding to him would just feed a troll. If he's legit, the pressure could be intimidating. Any rumor that comes out on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, the News, the Message boards ... should just be met with "Contact Paul/Steve/BBC" and then ignored. No asking questions about what episode it is, what proof they have, their name, etc. Just direct the person to the place they need to go and then IGNORE THEM.

If they are a hoaxer, they'll get bored. If they are telling the truth, they'll get the help they need.



I'm just curious about how labeling worked in the production of the episode. The answers on here have been great (Thank You all for the discussion, it's fascinating).


RICHARD: Have reels of 1960s Location Shots and Model Inserts been found for Doctor Who? Would they be labelled in a specific way (serial numbers, id code, etc)? I've seen plenty of images of individual episode labels, so I know what those look like, but I didn't know what the BBC process was before the episodes got to that form.

JON: I do remember that conversation! It was in the back of my mind but I didn't know where to look. I suppose my curiosity is an extension of that conversation. Moving from what's written on individual episodes to what's written on inserts, location shots, and all the stuff before the episode is made.

[Richard Bignell]

May 5, 2016 1:11:40 GMT Mark Vanderlinde-Abernathy said:

RICHARD: Have reels of 1960s Location Shots and Model Inserts been found for Doctor Who? Would they be labelled in a specific way (serial numbers, id code, etc)? I've seen plenty of images of individual episode labels, so I know what those look like, but I didn't know what the BBC process was before the episodes got to that form.

There's VERY little original 1960s material and I don't know if it's in its originals cans or not anymore.

However, you go to 1971, where we have a whole stash of 16mm insert material from Colony in Space in their original cans and who find a range of different notations. The model work is marked as 'Colony in Space', the location work is marked as 'HHH' and the rostrum material just as 'Dr Who'.

[Krisander T. Weum]

I read the post and he said that it said ¨FF¨ on the label (or something like that) and FF is the Production Code for The Highlanders, so if that was real and its not mislabeled I hope he/she take it to BBC Studios or contact somebody that works with this.

[Richard Tipple]

May 9, 2016 3:40:42 GMT Krisander T. Weum said:

I read the post and he said that it said ¨FF¨ on the label (or something like that) and FF is the Production Code for The Highlanders, so if that was real and its not mislabeled I hope he/she take it to BBC Studios or contact somebody that works with this.

I wouldn't be surprised if Production Codes of this nature were used on the original cans/copied across to new ones.